PWTORCH.COM
VIP SIGN-UP JUMP TO VIP
CONTACT US VISIT MMA TORCH




Select Next Article by Category





TAKE PWTORCH
WITH YOU!

PWTORCH IPHONE APP
Get our iPhone App (FREE!): Click Here
Or enter "PWTorch.com" on your Blackberry or other Smart Phone browser for mobile-version of PWTorch.


Website Flashbacks
2 Yrs Ago: Keller on which fans promoters should listen to
Feb 16, 2003 - 12:04:00 PM


By Wade Keller, Torch editor

The following Keller's Take was originally published on PWTorch.com two years ago, Feb. 16, 2001...

Original Headline: Cynical fans ''too smart for own good'' can be a promoter's most valuable customers


The major theme of this week's Torch Feedback section has been whether fans privy to insider knowledge through newsletters and the internet are too cynical and picky to enjoy wrestling as its meant to be enjoyed.

There is some truth to that idea, but it's not black and white.

In any form of entertainment, people have a thirst for more knowledge about what they watch. That is a natural progression. The VH1 "Behind the Music" series may expose the seedier side of rock sometimes, but fans who grew up idolizing bands love that insider perspective, filling in gaps in knowledge and exposing what was happening behind the curtain.

Pro wrestling fans are no different. It's natural, and frankly inevitable. There is no way we could keep the same innocence toward pro wrestling that we had as kids, or even as teenagers to a certain extent.

As people grow older and more sophisticated, they aren't willing to accept what is presented to them at face value. Is my favorite wrestler really the best, or is he just friends with the booker or promoter? Am I being cheated out of seeing cruiserweights because some over-the-hill heavyweights feel threatened by their athleticism?

Those are important questions that should be asked by wrestling fans who care to watch wrestling with their brains turned on and understand what it is that makes the form of entertainment they enjoy tick. People want to be entertained, but people are naturally inquisitive and curious.

It is nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to apologize for.

Being a reader of "the internet" does not mean you are a "smart fan," though. For one obvious reason there are varying degrees of quality when it comes to the knowledge and insight provided by internet sites. Heck, there is quite a variance day to day on this site, even article to article (more than we'd prefer sometimes).

Different fans bring different perspectives to the table, too. Some are homers. They choose an organization and take pride in sticking with it through good times and bad. There are fans who are addicted to certain styles, such as cruiserweights or garbage brawling or Japanese strong-style or WWF-style heavyweights. When evaluating a program, their opinion will be greatly affected by whether their particular style was featured. Thus a show that is considered "great" by one fan may be "mediocre" or "crap" by another. Neither is right or wrong, they are simply looking for different things.

One argument being made in Torch Feedback is that WWF isn't stale to the mainstream fan, it just is to overly-critical "smart" fans trying to show how smart they are to the product by second-guessing and believing they could "do a better job."

One thing to remember when making such an argument is that the WWF had what was widely considered the "better show" in the Raw vs. Nitro battle among internet/newsletter readers long before it took over in the ratings.

Viewership habits have inertia that's hard to break. Once a show establishes momentum in terms of viewership, it takes a while to turn off those fans. WCW found out the hard way, though, that once those viewers are turned off, it's difficult to get them back. They thought they could get away with a shoddy product because for so long their loyal fans stuck with them. Eventually those fans threw up their arms and walked away.

If the vast majority of WWF viewers are growing bored with the product - viewers who wouldn't bother to spend time reading about it on the internet much less drafting letters and guest editorials pointing out what they think is wrong - that doesn't mean they're ready to give up watching it yet. They're patiently waiting for that one big week where something captivates them again. They don't want to miss that big show.

The tricky part for the WWF is finding the right time where they aren't giving up too soon on a comfortable and profitable cruise control booking pattern that works by trying something radically new, yet risk turning people off by shaking things up.

Listening to their staunchest fans is not a bad idea, though. The internet fans who complain are watching more WWF shows more closely than the casual viewer who is still tuning in, albeit perhaps with a bit less enthusiasm than a few months ago - just out of habit. A trend in internet opinion should be seen as the early indications of a pending earthquake. Internet wrestling fans have their ears to the ground and can pick up on stagnation better and quicker than the casual fan.

Yes, there are fans who evaluate a product on purely their wants and desires with no consideration given to the fact that most casual viewers watch wrestling differently and for different reasons than they do. But to ignore a clear widespread trend in internet/newsletter fan opinions of a product is dangerous.

The fans who take time to complain are like customers who take time to complain about any business. They're the most valuable customers out there because rather than just give up, they care enough about the product to let management know, tipping them off on what they may not have been aware of otherwise, hoping it will be fixed.


Send feedback on this article to pwtorch@gmail.com and we'll regularly publish reader feedback in the "Torch Feedback" category on the Main Listing.

For more BREAKING NEWS on WWE, TNA!
VISIT OUR AFFILIATE - PROWRESTLING.NET


For UFC & MMA NEWS & BLOGS:
VISIT OUR SISTER SITE - MMATORCH.COM

Upgrade to PWTORCH VIP: DETAILS & SIGN-UP INFO


MORE "Website Flashbacks" ARTICLES
TORCH TALK AUDIO with Eric Bischoff, pt. 1: On life after wrestling, working for Vince McMahon, objecting to Kiss My Ass proposal, and more (20 min.)
KELLER'S WWE SMACKDOWN REPORT 5 YRS. AGO (02-26-04): Angle explains turn, Eddie knocks over Dawn, Cruiserweights at WM 20, Cena-Big Show clash, Lesnar vs. Gunn
20 Years Ago PWTorch Wrestler Ratings: Reader Rated Top Singles and Tag Wrestlers, and Most Obnoxious
10/28 Daily Keller Hotline: Analysis of the the highs and lows of last night's Raw including Rey-Bourne (17 min.)
KELLER'S TNA REPORT 5 YRS. AGO (8-21-03): C.M. Punk, R-Truth, Raven, D-Lo, Ultimate X Match, Gauntlet for NWA Title
WWE RAW ROUNDTABLE REVIEWS 8/18/03: Keller, Mitchell, McNeill, Powell,
NWO attacks Rock on Raw, Top 50 Stories of 2001, WWE PPV Report - 5 Yrs. Ago Torch
Team Corporate vs. Michaels, Hunter vs. Shamrock - WWF Raw 5 Yrs Ago:
Goldberg-Bigelow screwjob; Flair, Jericho, Nash, Rey - WCW Nitro 5 Yrs. Ago
WrestleMania 2000: Keller's match-by-match report - 3 Yrs Ago
McNeill's Top 10 Draft Picks - Rock, Angle, or Austin - 2 Yrs Ago
Keller on what went wrong last time Rock-Austin headlined WM
2 Yrs Ago: Mitchell - Why Paul Heyman Must Love PWTorch.com
2 Yrs Ago: Keller's No Way Out coverage - Austin vs. Hunter
2 Yrs Ago: Mitchell - Romance, Pro Wrestling Style
2 Yrs Ago: McNeill - Being ''Stone Cold'' Steve Austin
2 Yrs Ago: Keller on which fans promoters should listen to
1 Yr. Ago - Keller predicts NWO's impact on WWF locker room
2 Yrs Ago: Keller - Ross and Ventura, what they're really thinking
2 Yrs Ago: McNeill - WCW stars ten years ago same as today

(c) 1999-2009 TDH Communications Inc. - All rights reserved.

Current Top Ten Staff Picks
Staff Picks
TORCH TALK DAILY with Eric Bischoff: In-depth look at why Vince McMahon is marketing the WWE product as PG family-friendly
WWE News: TOP STORY - "The Rock" Dwayne Johnson working with WWE on a TV project beyond guest-hosting Raw
WWE News: Linda McMahon reveals the McMahon Family's vast wealth in Senate campaign filing
WWE News: Raw TV ratings are in - Did Raw rebound from the 2009 year-low?
WWE News: WWE announces guest hosts for the next four weeks of Raw, including two new names
Hogan News: Watch VIDEO of the Hulkamania Press Conference breaking down into a staged fight (w/VIDEO)
TNA News: SPOILERS - first two matches announced for TNA's December PPV
MOJO MITCHELL'S WWE RAW 11/16: Stream of Piper In The Back, Hornswoggle Stabbed in the Back, An MSG Look Back, Mr. McMahon Backs Out, Kofi Kingston Backs Randy Orton Up
CALDWELL'S WWE RAW REPORT 11/16: Complete coverage of Roddy Piper hosting, DX vs. Cena & Taker vs. Jericho & Show
TNA News: Kurt Angle suffers back injury at Sunday's Turning Point PPV


TORCH QUICK-CLICK REFERENCE LIST
-CLICK TO FOLLOW PWTORCH ON TWITTER!
-CLICK FOR OUR FREE PWTORCH IPHONE APP

-CLICK FOR OUR FREE PODCAST (#1 in iTunes!)
-CLICK TO GET INFO ON BECOMING A VIP MEMBER
-CLICK TO VISIT MMATORCH.COM
-CLICK TO VISIT PROWRESTLING.NET

-CLICK TO EMAIL PWTORCH EDITORS




PWTORCH READER POLL

TNA IMPACT POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/19 Impact if you saw the show?
Kurt Angle
Desmond Wolfe
A.J. Styles
Daniels
Team 3D
Rhino & Jesse Neal
Dinero & Morgan & Hernandez
Mick Foley & Abyss
Raven & Dr. Stevie
Kevin Nash
Tomko
World Elite
Machineguns & Beer Money
Taylor Wilde
Hamada
Homicide
ODB
Beautiful People
Alissa Flash
Sarita
  

VOTE IN OR SEE RESULTS OF PREVIOUS POLLS

ARE YOU VIP? SIGN UP NOW FOR $7.50 A MONTH FOR INSTANT ACCESS TO AD-FREE, BENEFIT-PACKED VIP VERSION OF PWTORCH.COM (see screen capture)
PWTORCH VIP HOME PAGE

INFO ON SUBSCRIPTION TO AD-FREE VIP SITE

INCREDIBLE BENEFITS!
Over 50 full-length audio updates per month (iPod compatible)... New weekly award-winning Pro Wrestling Torch Newsletter (text and printable pdf versions) with latest exclusive insider news, new Torch Talks, great columns, Keller's cover story, much more... Hundreds of full-length back issues of PWTorch Newsletter from late-'80s to today... Ad-free access to PWTorch.com's Main Listing... VIP Forum with interaction with other subscribers and Torch staff... Torch Talk Library with text and audio of hundreds of interview installments from last 20 years... Great layout... Deepest archives on pro wrestling history anywhere... Keller's PWTorch Today PDF Bulletins with email alerts... VIP Email reports on major PPVs and TV shows... Staff Roundtable Reviews (text and audio) followiing major events... The best staff of writers and world class reporting since 1987... We'd love for you to join us and experience the most entertaining, authoritative, experienced staff of professional reporters and commentators in the business...

SIGN ME UP NOW!

Compare the value of four or five months of PWTorch VIP content to the price of just one PPV. Can you cut 25 cents a day from your budget to make room for PWTorch VIP?

AND NEW FOR 2009!
Monthly "Vintage Audio Torch Talks." We are releasing for the first time ever audio versions of our text Torch Talk updates, the historical first series of insider interviews ever. Wade Keller's newsmaking in-depth interviews with wrestling's biggest names are now being made available exclusively to VIP members. But you must be a member each month, as these are not archived, so they are replaced with a new one each month! This debuted in January 2009 with a 68 minute interview with the late "British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith. Who's next? Hulk Hogan? Eric Bischoff? The Rock? Goldberg? Jeff Hardy?

SIGN ME UP NOW!


UPCOMING EVENTS LISTING

Articles Grouped by Category
Torch Today
WWE RAW 11/16: Place Your Bets on tonight's Raw - Week 12 featuring Roddy Piper
WWE RAW 11/2: "Place your Bets" Scoreboard after Week 11 - Review the previous scores before tonight's Raw PYB contest
TORCH MONTHLY AWARDS: List of the 2009 Torch Monthly Award winners through October
WWE News
WWE News: What's on Smackdown tonight - Taker & Kane vs. Big Show & Jericho
WWE News: Jim Ross comments on possible WrestleMania 26 return, current WWE contract status
TORCH TALK DAILY with Eric Bischoff: In-depth look at why Vince McMahon is marketing the WWE product as PG family-friendly
TNA News
TNA News: Impact rating is in - how did post Turning Point episode fare?
TNA News: Details on Chris Sabin re-injuring his neck at this week's Impact tapings
TNA News: Detailed recap of Mick Foley's promo on Comedy Central's "Daily Show" last night (w/VIDEO)
ROH News
ROH News: ROH Title match signed for Final Battle; Air dates for McGuinness and Danielson's Farewell speeches
ROH News: Ring of Honor announces details on Austin Aries's next ROH Title defense
ROH News: Tonight is Bryan Danielson's final ROH match - details on tonight's special ROH TV episode (w/VIDEO)
Other News
PWG News: First round matches for tonight's Battle of Los Angeles tournament - Aries vs. Kendrick; Cabana, Shelley, Strong in action
Hogan News: Hulkamania Tour secures TV deal in Australia, Notes on Hogan & Flair arriving at the airport to begin the tour
Austin News: Steve Austin to appear in new season of NBC's "Chuck" show
PPV Reports
CALDWELL'S TNA TURNING POINT PPV REPORT 11/15: Ongoing "virtual time" coverage of A.J. Styles vs. Samoa Joe vs. Daniels
RADICAN'S DGUSA "Untouchable" PPV review - Doi vs. Danielson, Shingo vs. Richards
10/25 WWE Bragging Rights Results: KELLER'S detailed match-by-match PPV report - Cena vs. Orton Iron Man match
TV Reports
PARKS' WWE SMACKDOWN REPORT 11/20: Ongoing "virtual time" coverage of the show, including Jericho & Show vs. Undertaker & Kane
CALDWELL'S WWE SUPERSTARS TV REPORT 11/19: Complete coverage of Henry vs. Rhodes on WGN
PARKS' TNA IMPACT REPORT 11/19: Ongoing "virtual time" coverage of the post-Turning Point show
Arena Reports
11/14 TNA in Scranton, Pa.: Second Report - Styles vs. Joe vs. Daniels, Chris Sabin vs. Suicide, Amazing Red vs. Homicide
11/14 WWE in Dublin: The Undertaker very limited in the ring vs. C.M. Punk, Rey vs. Dolph, Very interesting John Morrison vs. Matt Hardy match, No Jericho
11/14 TNA in Scranton, Pa.: Home of "The Office" delivers Styles vs. Joe vs. Daniels and Amazing Red vs. Homicide PPV warm-up matches
MMA / UFC Coverage
MMA News: Update on Brock Lesnar's health - how long Lesnar had been dealing with health problems, expected return to UFC
MMA News: Brock Lesnar health update - UFC president much more optimistic than this weekend
MMA News: Brock Lesnar released from the hospital tonight; Lesnar's UFC future in doubt
KELLER'S TAKE
KELLER BLOG: WrestleMania goes up to $55, all other PPVs $45 - let the pirate feed frenzy begin
KELLER BLOG: Dixie Carter asks wrestlers to step it up, but what does that mean? Shouldn't their goal to be winning matches and nothing else?
KELLER FLASHBACK: Review of Hulk Hogan's first autobiography - Hogan's political maneuvers evident in who he protects and buries
MITCHELL'S TAKE
MITCHELL FLASHBACK (Dec. 1994): C.M. Punk's character is the latest Vince McMahon creation responding to criticism of his WWE product
MOJO MITCHELL'S WWE RAW 11/16: Stream of Piper In The Back, Hornswoggle Stabbed in the Back, An MSG Look Back, Mr. McMahon Backs Out, Kofi Kingston Backs Randy Orton Up
MOJO MITCHELL'S RAW 11/2: Stream of My Fourth Grade Hero and The Mid-Card Kicks Main Event Ass
MCNEILL'S TAKE
The Night They Drove Ol' Dixie Down: McNEILL previews TNA Turning Point 2009!
McNEILL BLOG: The Big Questions About Hulk Hogan in TNA
Fight For Your Right to Bragging: McNEILL Previews WWE Bragging Rights!
CALDWELL'S TAKE
CALDWELL'S PPV/DVD REVIEW: Dragon Gate USA's "Open the Historic Gate" debut event - Review of whether following DGUSA is worth your time and money
CALDWELL'S TUESDAY CHAT w/GREG PARKS: Raw, Smackdown, TNA PPV discussion - MSG crowd, Survivor Series hype, Kofi breaks out, CSI:Miami vs. 30 Rock
CALDWELL'S BLOG: Hitting the hot topics - Raw tonight, Turning Point vs. Survivor Series, Jesse Ventura, Brock Lesnar, Shane McMahon
RADICAN'S TAKE
RADICAN: A list of things wresters and TNA fans can support for Dixie Carter
RADICAN'S SHIMMER Vol. 23 Review - Busic-Melissa, Kong-Martinez, MsChif-Deeb
RADICAN: Daddy's little girl V 2.0 debuts on Impact
The Specialists
UNDER THE MICROSCOPE - TNA Impact 11/19: Forgotten history between A.J. and Angle, TNA's new cameras, Pope gets referee assist, Numbers - The Rock a horrible tag champ
HITS & MISSES - TNA IMPACT 11/12: Review of last week's show before tonight's Impact - Wolfe-Angle build-up, Lethal loses to Niedhart
11/17 WWE ECW Hits & Misses: Intensity, Hurricane vs. Burchill, Regal & Punk vs. Christian & Truth
Guest Editorials
GUEST EDITORIAL: Disgruntled TNA fan says he's done with the promotion after today's Impact taping (Contains SPOILERS)
GUEST EDITORIAL: The ultimate irony - Hulk Hogan appears on TNA Impact and pre-taped TV sitcom promoting WWE on the same night
GUEST BOOK REVIEW: Hulk Hogan provides strong defense of his public image in new autobiography
Torch Feedback
ECW TV Reax #1: "C.M. Punk scoring the pin in the main event made Smackdown seem more important than ECW"
WWE Raw Reax #3: "While WWE delivered an above-quality show, they still haven't given viewers a reason to order Survivor Series"
WWE Raw Reax #2: "This was NOT one of the best Raws of 2009, but one of the worst..."
Ask the Editor
Ask the Editor: Wouldn't incorporating MMA-style holds into pro wrestling matches just be trying to be something it's not?
ASK THE EDITOR: Have the Michaels-Batista promos crossed a line with use of insider terms, references to "jobs"?
ASK THE EDITOR: Why do wrestlers in WWE refer to wrestling as "the business" and not "the sport"?
DVDs - VGames - Books
CALDWELL'S PPV/DVD REVIEW: Dragon Gate USA's "Open the Historic Gate" debut event - Review of whether following DGUSA is worth your time and money
RADICAN'S ROH DVD REVIEW SERIES: Death Before Dishonor VII: N2 - Storm-Hero, Ryan-Cabana
RADICAN'S SHIMMER Vol. 23 Review - Busic-Melissa, Kong-Martinez, MsChif-Deeb
Torch Flashbacks
PARKS'S WWE SMACKDOWN REPORT 1 YR. AGO (11-21-08): Final Survivor Series build-up to Undertaker vs. Big Show casket match, Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H, Morrison & Miz
KELLER'S WWE SURVIVOR SERIES PPV REPORT 10 YRS. AGO (11-14-99): Big Show vs. Triple H vs. The Rock, Edge & Christian & Hardys team, Chris Jericho vs. Chyna
KELLER'S WWF SURVIVOR SERIES PPV REPORT 15 YRS. AGO (11-23-94): Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund, Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Team Hall & Waltman vs. Team Michaels & Nash
VIP Exclusive Features
11/20 Wade Keller Hotline - Guest Bruce Mitchell: Survivor Series Match by Match Preview & Predictions (20 min.)
11/20 Bruce Mitchell Audio Show: Listener Questions - How Vince McMahon was perceived before he took over, Outlaw Promotions stories, Sting Flips off Bruce, Albano Craziness (45 min.)
PWTorch Newsletter #1117/1118 (31 pages!): Raw at MSG, TNA Victory Road PPV Roundtable, Mitchell on Russo-Hogan, Keller on Dixie Speech, more
Torch Trivia
TORCH TRIVIA 2/28: Which wrestler backed out of a WWA PPV in February 2002?
TORCH TRIVIA 2/27: Who said this quote about Hulk Hogan's athleticism 11 years ago?
TORCH TRIVIA 2/25: What said this quote about WWE's mid-1990s drug testing policy?
Torch Instant Polls
TNA IMPACT POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/19 Impact if you saw the show?
ECW MVP POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/17 ECW TV if you saw the show?
WWE RAW POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/16 Raw if you saw the show?
PWTorch Free Podcast
11/4 Nostalgia Audio with Brian Hoops: Format change to the show, new guest host, upcoming shows
FREE FOR ALL: 10/27 Bruce Mitchell Audio Special: Hogan-Bischoff-TNA story from all angles including Monday Night War II possibilities (32 min.)
6/23 Nostalgia Audio with Brian Hoops: Former WCW rapmaster PN News joins Brian Hoops to preview upcoming Midwest shows (10 min.)
Annual Obituaries
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 1999 - Muchnick, Rick Rude, Owen Hart, Renegade...
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 2000 - Solie, Albright, Duncum, Tsuruta, Blue Demon, Al Costello
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 2001: Johnny Valentine, Terry Gordy, Chris Adams, Bertha Faye, Helen Hart