CALDWELL'S TAKE CALDWELL & PARKS WEEKLY CHAT 9/8: In-depth discussion of Raw Supershow, Nash's status, WWE & TNA PPV hype, NXT, Smackdown, Impact
Sep 8, 2011 - 10:26:53 AM
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On a weekly basis, PWTorch staffers James Caldwell and Greg Parks have a Lounge-style chat reviewing the week in TV wrestling and looking ahead to what's next for key storylines, matches, and future events. An occasional "Seinfeld" or "The Office" reference is also mixed in for good measure.
-- NOTE: This week's Chat was "recorded" Wednesday night.
James Caldwell: This is PWTorch assistant editor James Caldwell joined by PWTorch columnist Greg "Mr. Birthday" Parks for our weekly TV wrestling chat. Greg, I have to start with the Summerslam text mystery solved on Raw - Kevin Nash sent himself the text. Your take on that storyline reveal?
Parks: I went into this pretty extensively in a blog I wrote last night published on PWTorch.com.
I feel like now there's only two ways this can go - Nash did send the text and either he's legit done or Johnny Ace will get him back in; or he didn't really send it to himself, which since he admitted that he did, means he and Hunter are in on this together. At least we've gotten one question answered, even if it doesn't make a whole lot of sense (yet). James, what's your take on the announcement of Nash being let go today, followed up by his comments on Twitter? Are you buying that this is legit, or do you still smell a work?
Caldwell: I'm under the assumption it's a complete work. I think WWE is trying to create a new kind of work in the "post-kayfabe era" where social media is part of the work. So, even though Nash's post-"release" comments on Twitter sounded completely legitimate as farewell statements, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be part of the storyline - maybe not right now, but down the line. Something like Nash had to "re-negotiate terms of the contract" with Laurinaitis, who then re-introduces him. Where this goes on TV will be interesting - do they completely drop Nash all together for now or do they re-visit Laurinaitis leaving in the limo with Nash? And, if Laurinaitis signed Nash behind Hunter's back on TV and he's in charge of talent, can't he "over-ride" Triple H's firing? Or, could that be something re-visited in a few weeks or months if Nash returns through Laurinaitis? It just really seems like this is changing week-to-week. I agree with you it doesn't make a lot of sense yet and I'm, again, waiting to see how it plays out.
Parks: Yeah, I'm surprised to see how many people have read Nash's Tweets and still think it's fake. The only thing keeping me from believing it's legit is, like you said, why would they film Ace getting into the car with Nash after he left Raw? I just find it a little hard to believe that WWE wouldn't have their ducks in a row with introducing Nash and not having him under contract or not being able to agree to dates before using him so that this could play out. If he truly is done (and maybe that's why they did the text reveal this week), that means they've botched Punk's return in bringing him back too soon - I know there were people who disagreed with that, but at this point, it looks like it was a mistake - and now they've botched Nash's involvement too. To me, to blow both of those in a major angle like this, someone's gotta get canned.
Caldwell: I totally agree. Let's assume for argument's sake that Nash is legit gone, which I don't believe. (a) Why didn't they have him cleared to wrestle before booking him in a situation that called for a match? (b) Why didn't they have the financials worked out before ever re-introducing him to TV? That's a TNA-like mistake if Nash's claim on Twitter today is legit. Now, WWE is forced to give away Hunter's in-ring return on an off-brand PPV and now they have to add stipulations to try to sell the FIRST match between them. It indicates (a) the hot-shotting is really catching up to them and (b) there won't be a re-match. Otherwise, why add the stipulations when they could build to a re-match with the stipulations added to raise the stakes? I'm at a complete loss evaluating WWE's handling of the big angles you mentioned. As for the Punk-Hunter match itself, how do you expect to see it play out when you're in-person at the PPV?
Parks: My prediction before today would've been Nash getting involved. Now, I'm not so sure. I figured there had to be some kind of a screwy finish, but the no-DQ stip takes some of those ideas away. There still could be some interference of some kind, but then that would likely add another party into the mix (if not Nash) to further confuse things.
Caldwell: Here's my thought: Miz and Truth cost Hunter the match (No DQ stip being their chance to interfere) so Hunter is removed as COO, which would fulfill their entire purpose on TV right now. Otherwise, if they don't take advantage of a stacked deck completely in their favor, they can't be taken seriously ever again. Of course, they could have Super Hunter thwart their interference and prevail to keep his job. That way, Hunter focuses on Miz/Truth rather than the teased firing of Punk. I'm getting a little off-road with my theory here, but if Nash doesn't interfere, I could see Miz/Truth interfering. Other option is Stephanie and/or Laurinaitis interfere against Hunter to cost him the job and that leads to McMahon returning. What do you think of those two potential scenarios?
Parks: I prefer the Truth/Miz one because they've been doing a great job in their nomad roles, and I'd really prefer the storyline focus on wrestlers like Miz and Truth rather than non-wrestlers like Steph and Ace. It would make sense because, as you said, the two men have been upset with their roles lately. It seems they're going to be facing Bourne and Kofi at the PPV, so that'll at least give them something to do there if they don't end up participating in the Punk vs. Hunter match. James, as someone who is going to be there live, I'm looking forward to Air Boom vs. Miz/Truth. What did you think about the set-up of that match, where the heels just seemed to make the match themselves?
Caldwell: That was one of the problems I had with Raw. It just seemed like such a lazy set-up for a title match. It was joined by its second-cousin the Teddy Long Smackdown Special when a brawl breaks out, the heels scatter, Long comes out, and Long books a main event since WWE didn't have a main event already announced. But, as for the Tag Title match - set-up aside - I think it's a really good match-up, although Miz and Truth aren't exactly setting the world on-fire in the ring lately, just with their character work. I think all four could deliver on PPV, though. As for your first point, I agree on putting the focus on wrestlers rather than non-wrestlers. There's been enough of that lately with Punk feuding against Hunter (super-part-time) and Nash (not available) in the top feud slot. Switching gears a bit, Greg, what did you make of Del Rio's TV return this week and the latest from his feud with Cena?
Parks: I liked Del Rio's interaction with the other heels, and calling out "the rudos of Raw," which has a nice ring to it. I still think his match with Cena has very little heat to it right now, and it's exacerbated by the fact that it's coming right on the heels of the Punk-Cena feud.
Caldwell: I think you touched on the other casualty of WWE's hot-shot booking. I still think WWE would be doing a Cena-Del Rio feud even if Punk were off TV and had not returned, but I think it would be have been given more focus and careful attention rather than being seemingly thrown together and victimized by that Cena Promo on last week's live Smackdown. (It definitely deserves another mention due to its lingering stench.) I assume Del Rio retains at Night of Champions, but could you see Cena capturing the title?
Parks: I could, especially after losing to Punk twice. But, like you said, if Punk wasn't back yet, you wouldn't have the Hunter-Nash-Punk storyline taking up so much time, and it would seem like the WWE title is actually the focus of the show, rather than something WWE seems to begrudgingly include in the show at this point. They're so tied up in their soap opera writing that they haven't made many people care about Del Rio vs. Cena.
Caldwell: The additional problem is WWE has de-valued the title that Cena and Del Rio can't just have a feud over the title. WWE has tried to add some sort of issue - like Cena mocking Del Rio's cars and his entire act - but it's fallen short. WWE really needs to hit the reset button after Night of Champions and figure out what they want to focus on during the fall season. I think part of that reset should be toning down (again) or eliminating Heel Cole all together. It was just unbearable on Monday's show. Beyond unbearable. Greg, what else jumped out at you from Raw - big picture or mid-card items?
Parks: Beth vs. Kelly is official for the PPV. Now you want to talk about an announcing train-wreck...that segment certainly fit the bill.
Caldwell: Oh my. Yes, you could see that one coming when five individuals had headsets during a two-minute Divas match. What do you make of WWE giving the title match nod to Beth in her hometown? Do you think it could affect Kelly (e.g. she gets booed and the crowd sides with Beth, then other crowds catch on and Kelly starts getting the Cena Reaction with some fans siding with Beth's argument for how the Divas division should look like? Or, is that too much of a stretch to assume the audiences after Night of Champions will care that much about a Divas storyline?)
Parks: I think it's the latter. Beth vs. Kelly has been on the books for N.O.C for a while now, so the only real surprise is they stuck with it and it didn't somehow change in the interim. I think some of the crowd will cheer Beth, but not all. Even if they do, they may have her cut a heel promo on the city or something like that. WWE seems to really be high on Kelly so I'm sure they want her as a strong face going forward.
Caldwell: That's true. I could see WWE doing one of the old heel routines where the heel returns home, talks up the city, then says, "Boy, I was so glad when I left." That's very likely. Does Beth come up short again vs. Kelly or does she get the title to put Kelly on the chase now?
Parks: I can't imagine what kind of cred the D.O.D would have if Beth lost again. Perhaps an Eve heel turn leads to Beth winning? This one is kind of a tough call. I'll answer for sure next week after another week of build-up.
Caldwell: Fair enough! Greg, a few final things on Raw - what was your take on the first official week of the Raw Supersho with some Smackdown cross-over (Mahal & Khali losing to the tag champs, Randy Orton's unhyped appearance and squash match over Slater, and Sheamus, Barrett, and Christian in the main event)?
Parks: Orton's appearance seemed somewhat forced and unneccessary. The main event guys gave it a good go and had an entertaining match. If they're building a real tag division, I'm surprised they're breaking up Mahal and Khali so early, unless they really think Mahal isn't ready.
Caldwell: I have the same takeaway from the booking of Mahal lately. I think WWE's short-sighted use of Smackdown stars was exposed with the introduction of Orton on the show. "The World Hvt. champion will be live on Raw tonight!" should have been shouted from the start of the show until his appearance to make it seem like a big deal. Instead, he was randomly shown backstage before coming out for a match. That was an instant message to the audience that if WWE can't be bothered to announce the top star on Smackdown is going to be focused on during the show, then (a) why is it a big deal Smackdown is now part of Raw and (b) why should I pay attention to Smackdown on Fridays? That was a definite miss for me on Raw. As for Orton squashing Slater, I thought that was really effective. It just could have been that much more effective without damaging Smackdown. ... I thought the highlight of the show was the main event, so Raw closed on a high note, but what's up with John Morrison being eliminated two minutes in? I know someone has to be first out, but in two minutes?
Parks: That would fit the way he's been booked the majority of the time since his return.
Caldwell: It's so bizarre. If they're not going to use him effectively, then why keep him around? On the flip-side, Jack Swagger suddenly got over the Anklelock, tapping out two wrestlers in the same match. Of course, it was a set up for Cena to escape the Anklelock for the finish, but your take on Swagger's good night and the triangle involving Ziggler and Vickie?
Parks: I don't really know. I don't have confidence they're going to follow through to anything meaningful with that. I would've liked to have seen Swagger and Ziggler team for a while to strengthen the tag division, then end up vying for VIckie's attention. There's nothing really wrong with Ziggler being jealous already (since it makes sense) but I think they could've helped the tag division for a while. Who knows, they may end up getting along and doing just that.
Caldwell: Good thoughts there. Greg, anything else on Raw or should we move on to NXT is Regal?
Parks: Let's go to NXT. I'm actually looking forward to talking about this one, since it was a good show (if you ignore the fact that the show is supposed to be some sort of contest to find the next WWE superstar, a concept that was all but ignored this week).
Caldwell: And that's why I have a tough time evaluating NXT since they've completely abandoned the idea of searching for the next WWE Superstar and the show just feels like a third brand with its own characters and storylines. So, putting aside WWE going against the purpose of the show, I liked the Regal-Young match involving Striker and Yoshi's return vs. Kidd (although I thought the match was just okay compared to their recent series). I am a little tired of watching Swoggle, Titus, and A.J. celebrate every week. They need some adversity to overcome!
Parks: Get the Raw writers on NXT, stat! They've booked John Cena all these years, they'll know how to get those two in a bad situation that needs overcoming. I thought Kidd vs. Tatsu and Regal vs. Young were both strong matches, and even Titus showed a lot of fire and some high-impact moves. Jack Korpela was Todd Grisham-lite, if that's even possible, on commentary. So yeah, not a ton to complain about.
Caldwell: I think Korpela is safe. I've been waiting for him to go off on Mr. Correction Matt Striker on Superstars, but the day hasn't come yet. So, I don't think he really adds or takes away from NXT - he's just solid and safe. Okay, Greg, NXT just finished Week 27, so should we set a new line or is there absolutely no end in sight for us to form an educated Las Vegas betting line?
Parks: My new line is "whenever the WWE network gets up and running." I've said this before, half-jokingly: I think they're saving the finale for the new network launch.
Caldwell: Yeah, which means a full year (and longer) of this season. Sigh. I think we'll set a line when there's actually a hint of there being light at the end of the tunnel. On the Smackdown front, we covered last week's live show in our Chat last week. Anything else to add from the latest Smackdown happenings?
Parks: I think we can skip that one this week. I will say: It was weird not having a game and not having to cover Smackdown, thus having a Friday night open.
Caldwell: Related to that, do you think WWE will lose some of their audience this week (and potentially in future weeks) with last week's timeslot change and now several top stars appearing weekly on Raw?
Parks: I don't think that should be a big concern for WWE. If viewers truly are into "habit viewing," which I think a lot are, that won't change how they watch Smackdown.
Caldwell: Yep, I agree most of WWE's viewing audience is made up of habitual viewers who will come back this Friday. I just wonder if there will be some lingering effect when that habitual Friday night viewing was broken for one week.That's always the risk WWE runs when they change up timeslots, even for one week. We'll see when the rating comes in next week! Greg, touching on TNA - it's PPV week for them and Angle revealed the Main Event in an interview yesterday. So, an unhyped main event and two BFG Series matches make up the PPV card. Outside of that, there's Jeff Hardy's TV return tomorrow night and TNA still on the road for Impact. What do you make of TNA right now?
Parks: I'm interested to see how they build to the PPV tomorrow night, as well as how the re-introduction of Jeff Hardy comes off on TV. I don't really know where he fits into TNA right now, but it's Jeff Hardy so they'll find a spot for him. The BFG series has really been ruined by Samoa Joe taking out and "injuring" top guys in the series, as well as Matt Morgan's legit injury.
Caldwell: Plus, removing Crimson from the top spot via injury angle. So, now, Bully Ray and Gunner made their way into the finals of a TNA Title shot opportunity. Disappointing conclusion, as much as I like Ray's character right now. Time for a bold pick! Who's your pick to win the BFG Series at the PPV to set up the title match at Bound for Glory?
Parks: So now it's two singles matches? I thought it was a four-way BFG match for some reason. I think it may come down to Storm vs. Roode. I'd bet on either Roode or Ray, but wouldn't be surprised to see Storm win. Gunner would be a major upset.
Caldwell: Here's the problem with this. TNA announced two singles matches after last week's Impact, but they didn't say how they would decide the ultimate BFG Series winner, so I thought they were doing two semi-finals, then a finals on the same show. Apparently, what they're actually doing is two standard BFG Series matches, with points counted like any other BFG Series match, and the wrestler with the most points after the PPV matches is the BFG Series winner. So, it would be like having two National Title games, then having the coaches and AP writers vote on who the champion is.
Parks: That's TNA for ya. By the way, how awful was that Bischoff-Knockouts segment? Yikes.
Caldwell: I thought it was a new low for how TNA presents the women on their roster. There are no words. There are so many different ways they could have gotten to Karen Jarrett up-staging Traci Brooks as new VP of the Knockouts without having that segment. What's your take on the current state of the X Division?
Parks: It's just kinda "there." They have some new parts in the division with Aries, Kid Kash, Jesse Sorensen and others, but it's more rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic more than anything else. They're still presenting the division the same way, it's just new guys are in those spots. It is nice that they're keeping the X Division separate from the heavyweights, for now at least.
Caldwell: A little lip service here, a little lip service there and it definitely feels like the same division, just with an arbitrary weight limit. I think Aries and Kash are strong characters right now, but Kendrick continues to make the division look like a sideshow act as the X champion. Too many mixed signals right now. Nothing else really jumps out at me from Impact lately until they kick it into BFG PPV hype next week. On a more positive note, what's on tap for Gonzo and the Greg this weekend?
Parks: This week, with No Surrender coming up and with the BFG series putting an emphasis on submission wins, we're going with the top five best submission moves.
Caldwell: Is Benoit's Crossface available for nomination or he is completely written out of the history books? That's a really interesting category, plus it ties in with the ill-fated submissions-only Breaking Point PPV from September 2009!
Parks: Dear God, hadn't even thought of that! And Benoit hasn't been written out of OUR history books, so that could end up on one of our lists, if we're feeling controversial. And we generally are.
Caldwell: I like it! All right, Greg, any final thoughts before we wrap up tonight?
Parks: That does it for me. I'm still digesting my birthday dinner, so it's getting time for bed.
Caldwell: I know that feeling very well. Greg, we'll be talking again this week on the Livecast. Until then, thanks for the Chat!
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