CALDWELL'S TAKE CALDWELL & PARKS WEEKLY CHAT 7/14: In-depth discussion of Raw's final MITB hype, Cena-Punk possibilities, MITB ladder match predictions, Henry-Show, NXT, Smackdown
Jul 14, 2011 - 3:53:06 PM
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On a weekly basis, PWTorch staffers James Caldwell and Greg Parks have a Lounge-style chat reviewing the week in TV wrestling and looking ahead to what's next for key storylines, matches, and future events. An occasional "Seinfeld" or "The Office" reference is also mixed in for good measure.
James Caldwell: This is PWTorch assistant editor James Caldwell joined by PWTorch columnist Greg Parks for our weekly TV wrestling chat. Greg, we've come to the top of the mountain that is the Money in the Bank PPV. All of the cards are on the table, the players are in place, what's said has been said, and now it's a matter of seeing what WWE has planned at the top of the mountain Sunday night. You had a VIP blog earlier this week laying out various scenarios, but what is your prediction for what PPV viewers will see in the mountaintop main event of John Cena vs. C.M. Punk?
Greg Parks: It's so hard to predict! And this isn't my usual side-stepping making a prediction...there are tons of ways WWE can go with this main event, and it's something that is good for WWE and they can use to draw viewers in to the PPV. I think ultimately Punk will not leave as champion, but even a statement as simple as that has so many avenues that could lead to it come Sunday.
Caldwell: I'm conflicted on this because, traditionally, WWE goes the conservative route in these situations. However, WW E has built this thing up so much that they can't go the tried & true conservative route of Cena retaining the title in standard Cena-conquers-latest-heel-foe and that's all she wrote. They've put too much time and energy into this for it to be a standard Cena title match. Otherwise, they risk turning away a segment of the audience that already doesn't trust WWE to deliver, especially on PPV. So, it has to be something big. And I don't think Chicago will be happy with the possible "Cena retains, Punk beats him down post-match, Del Rio comes in and cashes in MITB, and Del Rio is new champ thanks to Punk." It would be like the Cubs helping the Reds win the World Series or something. I just don't see that one working. I don't know what to make of it because, like you said, there are so many possibilities.
Parks: That's exactly what I wrote in my blog post - Cena winning cleanly and mugging for the camera with the title just won't do. I do think the chances are high that at least one of the MITB winners gets involved. What do you think about that idea?
Caldwell: I think so because I don't think WWE wants two MITB briefcase holders on TV. Of course, WWE could do something on the Smackdown side instead of Raw where Christian wins the title, then, say, Sheamus immediately cashes in and Christian gets a five-minute title reign to go with his five-day title reign. That sets up Orton vs. Christian vs. Sheamus at Summerslam. So, that's an option. But, I think the chances are higher of the Raw winner cashing in. Who knows - maybe Drew McIntyre steals a MITB slot, he wins, and he cashes in as McMahon's new "chosen one" instead of the favorite pick for this, Del Rio. I can't remember the last time there were so many different options for the end result of a WWE PPV main event.
Parks: I can't either, and that's exciting to me as a fan. I know others are quite excited too. Let's talk build-up: CM Punk got two more chances to hit promos out of the park on Monday night. Looking at his opening and closing promos James, which one was better and how would you grade it overall?
Caldwell: I liked Cena's involvement in the first promo, as he was very focused on the task at hand. I didn't like his involvement at all in the final promo, as I thought it served as a distraction. Punk then cleaned everything up and put a nice bow on it at the end: the WWE Title, John Cena, and McMahon's enterprise are in jeopardy on Sunday. There was still nothing about how Punk is actually going to win a match within the confines of a standard pro wrestling match to achieve his goal, but WWE is so lost in that area that it didn't surprise me. Overall, I liked the final two minutes of the final promo and two minutes of the opening promo from Cena. Otherwise, I think about 36 minutes could have been condensed down to about 20 minutes and the package would have been much cleaner. How did you evaluate the final build-up?
Parks: I loved it, other than Cena's over-the-top silly promo at the end. Totally out of place, and too much of a 180 from his opening promo. It's like WWE is afraid to do a serious angle, so they feel the need to inject comedy into everything, which hurts the build-up. I thought yes, the final segment was long, but it didn't feel like it dragged. And with Punk likely gone for a while, I was more than happy to take as much of him as I could get on what could be his final Raw appearance in some time.
Caldwell: Agreed on Cena in the final segment. Even Punk doing the bits with the ice cream as well as wanting his name/face on forks, knives, spoons, etc., I thought was too fluffy for a serious angle. I know what he was aiming for, but I thought it veered off a little. That goes in the category of dialogue I thought should have been cut. Not major issues, but I think it was unnecessary. I'm not quite sure what else to say about the final build-up because there are countless possibilities for the outcome on Sunday that it's not clear what direction they're headed. But, did you see any clues in the final promos that might indicate direction or could so much of what was said (e.g. another Triple H reference or another shout-out to Colt Cabana) just be red herrings?
Parks: I think they're just red herrings, but it would be nice to be wrong about that because it would be somewhat unpredictable and, depending on how it turns out, it could also make sense because they were mentioned several times in his promo. And with Triple H and Cabana, throw Rock's name in there as well...wouldn't that be an interesting turn of events if he showed up.
Caldwell: Very interesting! It's always possible Rock returns to save Cena's job since he wants to make sure he faces him at WrestleMania. And, Hunter could cost Punk the match for trash-talking him, and it would be revealed Punk has signed a contract and will face Hunter at Summerslam. Throw that into the mix and the possibilites grow even more. I think, whatever they do, they have to somehow not make the current state of Cena-Punk affairs the peak of the summer. Summerslam will have to feature something bigger than what they have right now and it makes me think something bigger will happen than just transitioning to Cena-Del Rio. We shall see! And, we'll be talking about everything right after the PPV with a special PWTorch Livecast on Sunday night. Greg, any final thoughts on the Cena-Punk build-up this week?
Parks: We could probably spend hours going back-and-forth on this feud and match, but who has that kinda time? Let's move on.
Caldwell: Let's see. Did anything else happen on Raw? Ah yes, a six-man tag match and Drew McIntyre's Fall of Doom. Obviously, the MITB match wasn't expected to be a central theme of the final PPV hype on Raw, but what did you make of the final look at the eight participants in the match?
Parks: Pretty predictable. WWE does very standard booking to promote the MITB match and that usually includes multi-man tag matches. They do little to highlight motivation and personality and just seem to throw guys together in matches.
Caldwell: It's so frustrating when eight wrestlers have a chance to achieve the ultimate prize and there's very little focus on what it would mean to each wrestler. What would it mean to Evan Bourne if he were to hold that briefcase and become champ? How would his life change? How would his family be affected? They completely miss these stories - the human element you mentioned - whenever there's a multiple-man match involving the title or one step away from the top prize in the promotion. It's so easy to put together a quick little video package on each wrestler's dreams & hopes & desires resting in one match. I didn't think the six-man tag that was good or impactful, either, so that didn't help. You're right it felt like guys were thrown together. And R-Truth already seems to be played out as a heel. What do you think?
Parks: R-Truth as a midcard heel doesn't work because they focus too much on the comedy and he gets lost in the shuffle. When he can get a main event opportunity with that character and they can build big moments around him, like him tossing the drink into the dad's face, that's where he shines.
Caldwell: Good points. I'm a little concerned about Alex Riley's character at this stage of the game. I feel like they've fallen short of defining the character and why people should get behind him, and he really only gets heat when paired opposite a strong Miz. Of course, Miz has looked like a chump lately, so Miz isn't strong, which is affecting Riley. What's your evaluation of Riley right now and what can they do about the situation?
Parks: Yeah, the Boston crowd was hot but they were silent for Riley's big moves in the match. I guess that was bound to happen, considering the main event-level crowd reaction he was getting upon his turn. I just think they haven't focused at all on Miz vs. Riley, which has caused it to lose steam.
Caldwell: Or, it feels like the exact same thing - Riley is mad, Miz runs away, and off they go. They tried to re-focus on Miz with last week's attack on Riley, but there was hardly any follow-up this week and Riley returned fresh as can be, showing no ill effects of the attack. Talk about cutting the legs out from under Miz. It's in the background right now, so it's not like they're on the main event stage and completely failing, which would do a lot of damage, but the program, Riley, and Miz could be more protected. Greg, your thoughts on another item from Raw - Henry's attack on Show, Mac taking a pounding before falling off the stage with Henry & Show, and the prior promo involving McMahon, Ziggler, McIntyre, and Vickie?
Parks: Unfortunately, the stuff Mark Henry is doing should be the focus of Raw - him knocking the cage into Big Show, taking him off the stage like this - but it's back-page news because of Punk's stuff. They played his attack of the techie on Smackdown a few weeks ago perfectly - it was the focus, many replays, people talking about it. His big stuff gets lost in the shuffle on Raw, which does harm to future big moments too, because people will see them as throw-away moments with the way they're treating his stuff the past few weeks.
Caldwell: And that's the problem with how WWE uses the brand split. They really need to keep what happens on Smackdown on Smackdown and what happens on Raw on Raw. Otherwise, like you said, WWE brings a big program from Smackdown over to Raw and it's barely a blip on the radar, which sends a message to viewers it's not that big of a deal. I think instead of the Raw or Smackdown Rebounds, they could have the announcers do a 60-second on-camera recap of the big news items happening on the other brand to get viewers up to speed and also pique some interest to check out the other show (this is mainly for Raw viewers to check out Smackdown). They could replay Henry's attack for 15 seconds and discuss the ramifications for 15 seconds, then hit on the other high points from Smackdown. The way WWE does it right now is so inefficient. Focusing on Henry vs. Show at the PPV, though, what are reasonable expectations for that match?
Parks: I think it could be the same as ADR vs. Show from last month, more of an angle than a match. I don't think anyone in WWE is under the impression people want to see these two in a ten-minute match. I think you may see a good brawl with some interesting power moves, as this has been a very heated feud, but I think they know enough to use bells and whistles to keep people interested in the actual match.
Caldwell: I immediately flashed back to Del Rio vs. Show from last month when I posed the question, as I expect the same type of match. Definitely heavy use of bells & whistles. I think Henry is much better off being kept out of the ring, except for important matches, so he can be protected and built up as a monster. This would probably be viewed as an "important match" if not for the two MITB matches and Punk-Cena, but I think WWE feels the need to include this match on the PPV because of the time invested and to offer a "big man vs. big man" match that WWE feels the need to include on PPV quite often. Greg, anything else from Raw worth touching on?
Parks: Not really, James. Let's move to NXT: We've got another week of Derrick Bateman under our belt. Did you think this episode did any more to flesh out his role on the show?
Caldwell: I think all they accomplished was keeping him at #2, but making sure he didn't make #1. I just don't get his character right now and it's certainly not a character that will win NXT. He's somewhat grating right now - the charming aspects that made him popular last season are now an annoyance. I think WWE wants to make sure the finale comes down to Bateman and Titus, but Titus still seems like the Rookie to beat. What's your evaluation after two weeks of Bateman officially being part of the show?
Parks: Yeah, I kinda agree - for whatever reason, he's just not doing it for me like he did last season. I also agree that I think Titus will still be #1, but Bateman was brought on to add some personality to the cast that was left.
Caldwell: It seems like they want to stretch this season out a few more weeks so that it's not so odd they just brought back Bateman for a few weeks before ultimately losing. I think once he feels like a true part of the show, they'll move on to the finale, where Titus will likely win. I think it's safe to say our prediction of this season lasting more than 20 weeks is accurate. Any thoughts on Yoshi-Kidd III?
Parks: Yeah, another good match. These are two guys I could watch wrestle often, but when it feels like they're just treading water and you know deep down inside that no matter how good a match they put on, they'll never move up the card...it does take something away from the enjoyment of it.
Caldwell: I'm sorry, were you talking about Kidd-Yoshi or the Destination X PPV?
Parks: Buh-zing! Yeah, I guess it could be both.
Caldwell: Ah. Had to get that in there. Yeah, what you said about Kidd-Yoshi is very true. It's like Regal's great commentary - it's only for the benefit of the limited NXT audience and won't ever mean anything. Moving on to your beat, Smackdown, what's your take on the Orton-Christian set-up for MITB and how things are looking for the title scene?
Parks: I just have to assume Orton is going to win on Sunday. I don't know if I can put up with more of this Orton-Christian feud, which I assume would continue if Christian wins the belt. Move on to Sheamus and be done with it. They've stretched this "Christian whining about losing" thing about as far as they can.
Caldwell: I'm leaning to my earlier idea of Christian winning, then Sheamus cashing in, setting up a three-way at Summerslam, or they just move on to Orton vs. Sheamus at Summerslam. I feel like Christian should still be part of the Summerslam title match as the final, final, end to this program, but I don't blame you for not wanting to see one more week of the same thing on Smackdown. Elsewhere on Smackdown, there's the MITB match situation. It feels like two or three favorites have been mixed with a Bunch Of Random Men. It shows how little depth there is on the Smackdown side. Your thoughts on the build-up thus far and your pick to win.
Parks: The three-way at Summerslam I could definitely see. At least it would be somewhat different as WWE needs someone like Sheamus to break up the blandness that has become Orton and Christian. I can't believe Heath Slater and Justin Gabriel made it in when Zeke Jackson (the IC Champ) and Ted DiBiase (in a high-profile angle with Cody Rhodes) are not in. Maybe DiBiase helps Cody win?
Caldwell: It's the same over on Raw with U.S. champ Dolph Ziggler not in the MITB match. I think both are odd. DiBiase helping Cody win is a distinct possibility. I could see Cody winning the briefcase, then putting a mirror on the case and staring at it all the time. Or something to that effect. I'm leaning toward Sheamus winning, but Cody is a good #2 option. Here's another question - how many insane spots does Sin Cara try to pull off during the match?
Parks: Probably every time he isn't outside selling. They've got Gabriel in there to do some stunts too, so it won't only be up to Cara.
Caldwell: Yep. There's just something missing about both matches, though - Shelton Benjamin. He was all over that MITB highlight package on Raw. Gabriel and Cara will have to suffice on the Smackdown side. Greg, anything else standing out on Smackdown lately?
Parks: The Usos are getting a nice opportunity to stand out, but in the tag division, what's the ceiling? Johnny Curtis's awful skits are still going on and I'm going to start begging for his in-ring debut if it goes any longer.
Caldwell: The tag division is so flighty and typically a joke - just look at the tag champs easily discarded by Cena in a handicap match on Raw - that it just feels like a placeholder for the Usos, but they are definitely getting some shine on their own merit. I think they have potential, but, like you said, how far can they really go if they remain a tag team? WWE will always run into that issue until they address the tag division. Greg, I think we can touch on TNA storyline-specific items next week after tonight's bigger-than-usual Impact episode. Any thoughts on the Destination X PPV, though, you want to touch on?
Parks: I think I pretty much summed it up in my RT review of the show, available in the latest Torch Newsletter. In short: Good, but left something to be desired.
Caldwell: Agreed. I left it all out on the field, too. Darn, that ESPY cliche-o-meter finally got me. Greg, any final thoughts before we wrap up?
Parks: Nope - no Gonzo & The Greg this week, but Kurt and I will be answering questions from our fans (left either on our Facebook page or in the G&G thread in the Torch VIP forum) and predicting MITB on Sunday - video will be posted in the VIP Forum and our Facebook page.
Caldwell: Awesome. I'm looking forward to that! Thanks as always for the chat, Greg. Of course, you and I will be back on Sunday for the post-MITB Livecast breaking down what goes down on the PPV. We'll be taking plenty of calls and I'm sure we'll have plenty to discuss.
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