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Torch Flashbacks
WWE NO MERCY ROUNDTABLE 5 YEARS AGO (10-19-03): Keller, Mitchell, McNeill, Powell rate and review PPV event
Oct 5, 2008 - 4:22:17 PM


Bruce Mitchell, Torch columnist (7.0)

Nice of Mr. McMahon to use his 58 year body as a living tribute to the late Michael Hegstrand...

It’s a shame that Vince’s Wedding Present hype overshadowed what turned out to be a solid effort from everyone on the roster. All eyes were on John Cena, who came through with the best match of the night with Kurt Angle. Cena is putting all the pieces together to become a real main eventer.

The Undertaker-Brock Lesnar match was a good big man match, but I wonder if Lesnar knows he's just a stand-in for Mr. McMahon.

Tajiri vs Rey Mysterio was a good match and I look forward to the Yazuka team adding something to the Buzzsaw's act (and hopefully we won't see some corny feud with the FBI.) Zach Gowen's win came out of nowhere (I don't get that) but he was great. Chris Benoit and A-Train was watchable. The APA vs. The Bashams wasn't much but at least the right team won.

And you know, under different circumstances, the Father-Daughter nonsense could have been a nice sidedish to a wrestling entree. Boy, that Vince-Taker feud ought to be something, huh?

Pat McNeill, Torch columnist (6.0)

This was a better than expected show. But we should all stop acting surprised whenever WWE puts on a PPV that isn't a total embarrassment to the business. The best match tonight was Kurt Angle's match with John Cena. Cena continued on his road to becoming a future main eventer and you can't point at anything particularly wrong with his performance tonight, but it wasn't really the sort of breakout match you'd expect from somebody people are touting as the next Rock or Steve Austin.

There wasn't really a bad match on the show. The most disappointing of the eight matches had to be Eddie Guerrero against Big Show, especially since we've seen better matches from Show during this year.

I really like the idea of having post-match interviews with victorious wrestlers. Hopefully this will become a regular feature. The top observation of the night goes to Tazz who helpfully pointed out that in order to beat Undertaker in the chain match, Lesnar needed to get the chain. That's why they call him a broadcast journalist.

Here is the problem with tonight's booking. Outside of Kurt Angle and maybe Chris Benoit, none of the fan favorites were made to look strong coming out of the PPV. Unless we're heading toward Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar again at Survivor Series, I don't understand the rationale for several of the decisions that were made tonight.

Jason Powell, Torch assistant editor (5.0)

Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar was a lackluster match that didn't even measure up to the last two Raw pay-per-view main events. And when you take into account that Goldberg was in those Raw main events, that really says something about Taker vs. Lesnar. And it's not like Taker and Lesnar haven't come through with a good match before. Around this time last year, Lesnar and Taker put together a strong Hell in a Cell match. What was different this time around is that the chain gimmick was weak compared to Hell in a Cell, Paul Heyman wasn't at ringside, and this match was all about Taker.

Last year, Taker did an admirable job of putting the focus on Lesnar. Taker even cut a promo the next week in which he all admitted that he had been beaten by a better man. Taker even hinted that Father Time was catching up to him when he added that it may have been a different story had he been in his prime when he faced off against Lesnar. This time around, Taker showed off all of his submission moves while dominating the champion. During his first promo on Smackdown, he won't say that he was beaten by a better man, but rather that he would have won the WWE Title if it hadn't been for Vince McMahon and The FBI. And if Taker doesn't say it himself, the announcers will surely say it for him.

The question I have is whether this was a move made by Taker or whether it was Vince McMahon. After all, Taker wasn't the only one overshadowing Lesnar. Vince didn't put his match with Stephanie in the main event slot, but the advertising for this event made it pretty clear which match Vince considered the true show stealer. And in a way, Vince did steal this show. He took the spotlight away from the WWE Champion and the rest of the real wrestlers and shined it directly on himself, ensuring himself another large pay day when he and Taker square off at Survivor Series. Steph may be taking a break, but there's no sign of the McMahon domination of television time coming to an end any time soon.

Notes: Rey Mysterio vs. Tajiri had a very good match, but it wasn't much different than what they've done for free on Smackdown. Same with Chris Benoit and A-Train for that matter. WWE needs to stop giving away these matches so that there is some incentive for the fans to pay for these shows... Zach Gowen's win over Matt Hardy was not the major event it could have been. I've been saying for months that WWE should have built to Gowen's first win as a singles wrestler over time. They finally acknowledged his losing streak, only to give away his first victory in a forgettable manner. So what's next for Zach now that he's just another wrestler?... Is there a reason the announcers have to refer to Vince as "Mr. McMahon" at all times? I know the point is supposed to be that they live in fear of their boss, but it's almost laughable when they give him the respect of calling him "Mr. McMahon" in the same breath that they refer to him as a sick monster... Replay Factor: Nah, hold out for Survivor Series...

Wade Keller, Torch editor (6.0)

This was a good show that benefited from low expectations, but I think actually delivered less than I personally expected. I thought Angle could get more out of Cena than he did. It was a very good match, but not at the ***3/4 or **** level that I thought Cena needed to move into a solid top tier slot as a WWE main eventer. Undertaker vs. Brock was 5 or 10 minutes longer than it needed to be or should have been. There was just too much punching and stomping for fifteen minutes with both wrestlers switching between first and second gear. There needed to be more crescendos early on to ignite the crowd and PPV viewer's energy.

Guerrero vs. Show okay given the size difference. Even though Guerrero is a better, more experienced worker than Brock, he doesn't have the size to have as good of a match with Show as Brock has had. It was still a worthwhile, entertaining match, but there was so much potential for them to play off of Show being humiliated before, and giving Guerrero some great spots to continue to humiliate Show even more. It seems as if the writers didn't get as into booking spots in this match as they did booking angles to hype the match. We needed some Big Show facial expressions for comedy when Guerrero outsmarted him, but we didn't get that. I did like the post-match interview with Show, who made the U.S. Title seem like a big deal.

The Matt Hardy vs. Zach Gowen finish threw me. I didn't expect it and still don't get it. Did Matt's WWE contract run out and he's headed to TNA? The clean win wasn't even believable. A simple moonsault knocked Matt completely out? The only saving grace can be if Matt "threw" the match on purpose to mess with Zach, but even then that would cheapen the selling point of all matches, which is that heels (or anyone) hate to lose under any circumstances. Hardy is main event, Zach is novelty. Both can be money players, but Hardy shouldn't be jobbing to Zach clean.

I would have put the Bashams vs. APA on first, and saved the Cruiserweight Title match until after Big Show's U.S. Title win over Guerrero. The Cruiserweight Title, to mean anything, has to be treated as something special. I'm not a believer that the opener has to be a fast-paced energetic yet meaningless match. I think an opener can just be a basic warm-up tag match like APA vs. Bashams could have been.

Steph vs. Vince was what it was. It was nice comedy relief. They did a nice job with it. They didn't overstay their welcome. Too bad the TV hype was so over-the-top heading into the match.


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MORE "Torch Flashbacks" ARTICLES
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about Eric Bischoff, the demise of WCW
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about his relationship with Ric Flair
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about his relationship with Vince Russo
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about his on-again, off-again relationship with Vince McMahon
TNA News: Hulk Hogan to TNA - The most-detailed timeline you will read of the behind-the-scenes insider news on Hulk Hogan's first tease of working for TNA
KELLER FLASHBACK: Review of Hulk Hogan's first autobiography - Hogan's political maneuvers evident in who he protects and buries
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about disagreements with Vince McMahon
KELLER'S WWE TABOO TUESDAY PPV REPORT 5 YRS. AGO (10-19-04): Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton vs. Ric Flair, Shelton Benjamin IC Title victory vs. Chris Jericho
CALDWELL'S WWE CYBER SUNDAY PPV REPORT 1 YR. AGO (10-26-08): Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Santino vs. Honky, Remember the Matt Hardy vs. Evan Bourne ECW Title match?
KELLER'S WWE SMACKDOWN REPORT 5 YRS. AGO (10-28-04): The Miz on Tough Enough, Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio, Your main event of Booker T vs. Orlando Jordan
KELLER'S WWE SMACKDOWN REPORT 1 YR. AGO (10-24-08): Triple H vs. The Undertaker, Final build for Cyber Sunday, Cult Favorite Bam Neely!
TNA IMPACT 5 YRS. AGO: Keller's report on show featuring Jeff Hardy, R-Truth, Styles, Sabin, Jarrett, Daniels
KELLER'S TNA IMPACT REPORT 1 YR. AGO (10-23-08): One-year anniversary of the Main Event Mafia formed in Las Vegas, Kevin Nash & Sting vs. A.J. Styles & Samoa Joe main event
KELLER'S WWE RAW REPORT 5 YRS AGO: Edge & Benoit & Michaels vs. Flair & Triple H & Batista, Trish Stratus, Stacy Keibler, Jericho, Orton, Rhyno, Snitsky
KELLER'S WWE RAW REPORT 5 YRS AGO: Triple H vs. Jericho, Michaels vs. Christian, Stacy Keibler vs. Molly Holly, Benoit vs. Batista, Lita's Pregnancy
KELLER'S WWE RAW REPORT - 10 YEARS AGO: Steve Austin health update, The Rock vs. Jericho headlines, Edge & Christian vs. Hardyz, Chyna, Mae Young
WWE PPV ROUNDTABLE 10 YRS AGO: Keller and Powell review WWE Unforgiven 1999 including haircut critiques, called spot cover-up
KELLER'S WWE PPV REPORT - 10 YRS AGO: The Rock vs. Triple H headlines, Rottweillers in a cage, plus do you remember who Jericho co-headlined against?
Hardy Flashback: Keller interviews Jeff Hardy, who characterizes brother Matt as a spin doctor, gets into whole Matt-Lita-Edge love triangle
KELLER: The inside story on Bret Hart Screwjob in Montreal - our original in-depth cover story the week it happened

(c) 1999-2009 TDH Communications Inc. - All rights reserved.

Current Top Ten Staff Picks
Staff Picks
TNA News: Ratings are in for Thursday's Impact - did TNA retain the audience from last week's Hulk Hogan Impact?
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WWE/TNA News: Hulk Hogan claims he taught Vince McMahon the wrestling business, talks more about his role in TNA
WWE Raw Results 11/2: KELLER'S rundown of all matches and segments, plus analysis, star ratings, quotebook
TNA News: Ratings are in for Hulk Hogan Impact - did the publicity help TNA?
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Articles Grouped by Category
Torch Today
TORCH MONTHLY AWARDS: List of the 2009 Torch Monthly Award winners through October
TORCH MONTHLY AWARD VOTING: Results for Best/Worst in pro wrestling for October
TORCH MONTHLY AWARD VOTING: Polls OPEN for best/worst in pro wrestling from the month of October (Part 2 of 2)
WWE News
WWE News: "Target" of Chris Jericho's drunken slur turns the incident into a joke (w/VIDEO)
WWE News: Raw guest host wins NASCAR race in WWE vehicle; WWE receives plenty of publicity during race coverage
TORCH TALK DAILY with Eric Bischoff: The first of a series of questions pushing for answers on Bret Hart's lackluster run in WCW - "Montreal was a life-threatening wound"
TNA News
TNA News: Ratings are in for Thursday's Impact - did TNA retain the audience from last week's Hulk Hogan Impact?
TNA News: Next week's TNA Impact - Sting reappearing to talk Hulk Hogan, A.J. Styles vs. Samoa Joe
TNA News: Watch TNA president Dixie Carter's "Love it or Leave It" speech to the roster from Impact (w/VIDEO)
ROH News
ROH News: Jim Cornette officially begins as ROH executive producer at today's ROH TV tapings (w/VIDEO)
ROH News: Ring of Honor receives positive press for ROH TV taping this weekend
ROH News: ROH TV episodes now available on DirecTV's Video-On-Demand service
Other News
Hogan News: Can Hulk Hogan wrestle again? Hogan needs help walking during TV interview (w/VIDEO)
DGUSA News: Gabe Sapolsky predicts the wrestling industry will die without new TV wrestling stars
Hogan News: Hulk Hogan cracks the Top 15 of a Best-sellers List
PPV Reports
RADICAN'S DGUSA "Untouchable" PPV review - Doi vs. Danielson, Shingo vs. Richards
10/25 WWE Bragging Rights Results: KELLER'S detailed match-by-match PPV report - Cena vs. Orton Iron Man match
CALDWELL'S WWE BRAGGING RIGHTS PPV REPORT 10/25: Ongoing "virtual time" coverage of Cena vs. Orton, Team Raw vs. Team Smackdown
TV Reports
WWE SMACKDOWN ROUNDTABLE REVIEWS 11/6: Donofrio, Mezzera, Parks rate and review
WWE SUPERSTARS ROUNDTABLE REVIEWS 11/5: Caldwell, Donofrio, Parks rate and review
PARKS' WWE SMACKDOWN REPORT 11/6: Ongoing "virtual time" coverage of the show, including Batista vs. Hardy
Arena Reports
11/6 WWE in Brussels: Undertaker vs. Punk casket match, Christian vs. William Regal, Cryme Tyme vs. Hart Dynasty, of course
11/4 WWE in Dublin, Ireland: John Cena vs. Jack Swagger WWE Title match, DX vs. Legacy, Randy Orton vs. Kofi Kingston
10/30 Dragon Gate in Germany: Young Bucks, CIMA vs. Mike Quackenbush, El Generico
MMA / UFC Coverage
Strikeforce News: Fedor vs. Rogers Fight Results - Exciting fight lives up to expectations live on CBS
FEDOR VS. BRETT ROGERS - Keller's detailed report, analysis, star ratings of CBS live MMA fight card (redirect)
FEDOR vs. BRETT ROGERS on CBS Saturday Night - Torch Team Coverage (redirect)
KELLER'S TAKE
KELLER BLOG: WrestleMania goes up to $55, all other PPVs $45 - let the pirate feed frenzy begin
KELLER BLOG: Dixie Carter asks wrestlers to step it up, but what does that mean? Shouldn't their goal to be winning matches and nothing else?
KELLER FLASHBACK: Review of Hulk Hogan's first autobiography - Hogan's political maneuvers evident in who he protects and buries
MITCHELL'S TAKE
MOJO MITCHELL'S RAW 11/2: Stream of My Fourth Grade Hero and The Mid-Card Kicks Main Event Ass
MITCHELL FLASHBACK #4: In 1993, after Hogan first left the WWF, he had a lot of career choices
MITCHELL FLASHBACK #3: Hogan's autobiography review - insight into his world
MCNEILL'S TAKE
McNEILL BLOG: The Big Questions About Hulk Hogan in TNA
Fight For Your Right to Bragging: McNEILL Previews WWE Bragging Rights!
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah! McNEILL Previews TNA Bound for Glory 2009
CALDWELL'S TAKE
CALDWELL'S BLOG: Vince McMahon is officially delusional, plus Vince's hidden message to Stephanie McMahon
CALDWELL'S TUESDAY CHAT w/GREG PARKS: Raw & Smackdown discussion - Orton-Kofi build-up compared to Rey-Batista, DX dissension, Sheamus stands out
CALDWELL FLASHBACK: TNA Year-End Review 2005 - Must-read flashback to when TNA became a choice for wrestlers in an era very, very similar to 2009
RADICAN'S TAKE
RADICAN: Daddy's little girl V 2.0 debuts on Impact
RADICAN: Wolfe-Angle follow up displays typical warning signs of danger from creative standpoint
RADICAN: TNA finally straps a rocket on the right ass
The Specialists
11/7 WWE Smackdown Hits & Misses: Mysterio vs. Knox, Punk vs. Truth, Batista vs. Hardy
PARKS BLOG: Chris Jericho should know better
UNDER THE MICROSCOPE - TNA Impact 11/5: TNA = The Office, What Vince Russo was thinking during Dixie Carter's speech, Desmond Wolfe and Duran Duran, Highlander spotting, Numbers - Titleholders since 1990
Guest Editorials
GUEST EDITORIAL: Disgruntled TNA fan says he's done with the promotion after today's Impact taping (Contains SPOILERS)
GUEST EDITORIAL: The ultimate irony - Hulk Hogan appears on TNA Impact and pre-taped TV sitcom promoting WWE on the same night
GUEST BOOK REVIEW: Hulk Hogan provides strong defense of his public image in new autobiography
Torch Feedback
WWE PPV Price Increase Reax #1: Outrage expressed over WWE's latest PPV price raise - could the backlash cause WWE to second-guess decision?
TNA Impact Reax #3: "The build for the PPV matches somehow featured Hulk Hogan despite him yet to show up on TV"
TNA Impact Reax #2: "I'm tired of non-stop talking. This isn't a Broadway play; it's professional wrestling and the best stories are told in the ring"
Ask the Editor
Ask the Editor: Wouldn't incorporating MMA-style holds into pro wrestling matches just be trying to be something it's not?
ASK THE EDITOR: Have the Michaels-Batista promos crossed a line with use of insider terms, references to "jobs"?
ASK THE EDITOR: Why do wrestlers in WWE refer to wrestling as "the business" and not "the sport"?
DVDs - VGames - Books
VIDEO GAME REVIEW - Smackdown vs. Raw 2010: WWE's latest video game called best since the No Mercy measuring stick
RADICAN'S ROH DVD REVIEW SERIES: 7/24 DBD VII: N1 - Hero & Richards vs. Storm & Steen
RADICAN'S CHIKARA DVD REVIEW: 5/24 "Anniversario Yang" - The Colony vs. F.I.S.T, 8-Man Tag
Torch Flashbacks
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about Eric Bischoff, the demise of WCW
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about his relationship with Ric Flair
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about his relationship with Vince Russo
VIP Exclusive Features
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11/7 Bruce Mitchell Audio Show: Reader questions on Goldberg's Winning Streak, Zbyszko's HOF Credentials, Overrated Matches, X-Pac Sucks Chants, Test's Name, Paul Ellering's Story (44 min.)
11/6 Bruce Mitchell Audio Show: Why Vince McMahon said WWE isn't a family business, Hulk Hogan-TNA analysis, Dixie Carter's last-gasp speech (65 min.)
Torch Trivia
TORCH TRIVIA 2/28: Which wrestler backed out of a WWA PPV in February 2002?
TORCH TRIVIA 2/27: Who said this quote about Hulk Hogan's athleticism 11 years ago?
TORCH TRIVIA 2/25: What said this quote about WWE's mid-1990s drug testing policy?
Torch Instant Polls
INSTANT POLL: How will WWE's price raise to $4.95 per PPV affect you?
SMACKDOWN POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/6 Smackdown if you saw the show?
TNA IMPACT POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/5 Impact if you saw the show?
PWTorch Free Podcast
11/4 Nostalgia Audio with Brian Hoops: Format change to the show, new guest host, upcoming shows
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Annual Obituaries
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 1999 - Muchnick, Rick Rude, Owen Hart, Renegade...
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 2000 - Solie, Albright, Duncum, Tsuruta, Blue Demon, Al Costello
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 2001: Johnny Valentine, Terry Gordy, Chris Adams, Bertha Faye, Helen Hart