PWTORCH.COM
VIP SIGN-UP JUMP TO VIP
CONTACT US VISIT MMA TORCH




Select Next Article by Category





TAKE PWTORCH
WITH YOU!

PWTORCH IPHONE APP
Get our iPhone App (FREE!): Click Here
Or enter "PWTorch.com" on your Blackberry or other Smart Phone browser for mobile-version of PWTorch.


The Specialists
DEROSENROLL's ROH HISTORY: Classic Feuds v.7 - Matt Hardy vs. ROH fans
Jul 5, 2009 - 7:15:34 PM


By Mike DeRosenroll, Torch specialist

ROH Classic Feuds: Matt Hardy vs. the ROH fans

One of the most memorable wrestling backstage news stories of 2005 was the Matt Hardy-Lita-Edge affair. WWE released Hardy in April 2005 - while he was off the road with an injury - shortly after word got out that WWE women's wrestler Lita, Hardy's long-time real-life girlfriend, had been involved in a real-life affair with Edge (himself married at the time). Hardy publicized the sordid situation on his website and in numerous interviews. This drew fan attention to the situation and, three months later, Hardy got his job back with WWE to return and feud with Edge.

Hardy the Pirate Broadcaster

Before it was apparent that Hardy would be returning to WWE, ROH booked him to work three dates in summer 2005. I have long wondered what then-ROH booker Gabe Sapolsky planned to do with Hardy had Hardy not returned to WWE.

In the DVDs for the shows leading up to Hardy's debut, ROH ran short clips of him that he was supposedly beaming into the shows against ROH's will with some kind of pirate broadcasting technology. This had "Wrestlecrap" written all over it since Sapolsky apparently expected fans to believe that Hardy was cutting live into DVD releases when ROH could obviously edit out anything unwanted. However, we never got to see where this was actually going because Hardy re-signed with WWE before his first ROH appearance and ROH dropped the angle.

WWE allowed Hardy to fulfill his outside bookings after re-signing, so ROH went ahead with Hardy's three scheduled matches that summer with no further elaboration on the pirate broadcasts.

Hardy Mentions ROH on RAW

Hardy re-debuted on RAW on July 11, 2005, a few days before his first ROH date. WWE tried to portray the angle as a shoot, as though Hardy was not a WWE performer and was trespassing at Raw to attack Edge, but the execution was so choreographed that it was obviously an angle.

On the July 11 Raw, Hardy came through the crowd and attacked Edge in the ring after a bad match with Kane. After the two were separated, Hardy grabbed the ringside mic and cut a promo on Edge and Lita. One of the many logic holes in WWE's portrayal of this angle as a shoot was why the WWE television producers broadcasted a close-up of Hardy and did not cut his microphone during the promo.

WWE officials conveniently caught up to Hardy just after he finished his promo and, as they were dragging him away, he yelled into the mic: "Come see me in Ring of Honor, ROH!" I suppose this was meant to reinforce that the angle was a shoot, but nothing was going to save it at this point.

Hardy's ROH Debut

The following weekend, Hardy faced Christopher Daniels at ROH's Fate of an Angel event in Woodbridge, Connecticut. The match was the semi-main event before C.M. Punk's World Title defense against James Gibson (this was the middle of the red hot Summer of Punk angle, which I covered in this column.

Hardy got a great babyface reaction from the crowd, which he solidified by cutting a good basic promo putting over ROH. Since he was facing another babyface (Daniels had recently turned face), the crowd reaction during the match was split. The match itself was good, but not a classic by ROH's extremely high standards for in-ring work. Nevertheless, it was a good performance from Hardy considering he was just returning after a long injury layoff.

Amazingly, Sapolsky on commentary went along with the ridiculous WWE storyline by saying that Hardy was not a member of the WWE roster when he jumped Edge on Raw. Hardy got the win over Daniels when C.M. Punk interfered and hit Daniels with a chain while Hardy and the referee were not looking. The fans were not happy with the tainted finish, but still gave Hardy a respectful ovation.

The Fans Turn on Hardy

A month would go by before Hardy's final two ROH appearances, a weekend swing through Dayton, Ohio, and Chicago for Redemption and Punk: The Final Chapter. During that month, WWE kept trying to sell the ridiculous notion that the Hardy-Edge angle was a shoot. Hardy ruined his credibility with many fans by continuing to work the angle through his personal website. When this did not get over, WWE shifted gears and brought Hardy into Raw as a normal member of the roster to set up a Summerslam match with Edge.

By the time Hardy arrived in Dayton for Redemption, most of the ROH fanbase had turned on him. Sapolsky tried to manipulate the Dayton fans into giving Hardy a babyface reaction by putting him against Homicide (a top ROH heel at the time), having Hardy save babyface Jay Lethal from a beat down by Homicide and Low Ki, and having Hardy cut a babyface promo before the match. This got Hardy a few cheers at first, but most of the crowd quickly got behind Homicide with chants for him to "F- up" Hardy.

Like the Daniels match, the Hardy-Homicide match was good but not great. Hardy got another tainted win when Low Ki tried to throw Homicide a chain, but Jay Lethal came to ringside and got into a tug-of-war with Homicide over the chain. This distraction allowed Hardy to roll-up Homicide from behind for the win. The fans hated the finish and booed Hardy out of the building.

Hardy Puts Over Roderick Strong

The next night at Punk: The Final Chapter in Chicago, the fans were overwhelmingly anti-Hardy and greeted him with an array of hostile and vulgar chants. To his credit, Hardy dealt with it like a pro and gave the fans an excellent 20-plus-minute match against Roderick Strong that put over Strong very well. Hardy played off the heat from the crowd very effectively and made Strong look like a million bucks.

I have seen a lot of Hardy's work in the WWF/WWE and I rate this match against Strong as the best real wrestling match I have ever seen Hardy have (his classic gimmick matches in the 1990s are another category). It is the one match of Hardy's ROH run that reaches the level of a great ROH match.

Analysis

Sapolsky used Hardy well to put over Roderick Strong as a rising star. Giving Hardy tainted wins over Daniels and Homicide in his first two matches protected his opponents while giving Hardy enough momentum and credibility to make Strong's win in the end meaningful. Strong was just coming off a breakout singles match against C.M. Punk, and Hardy putting him over was a great way to continue his rise to main event status. By the end of the year, Strong would be headlining ROH shows in feuds against The Embassy and "American Dragon" Bryan Danielson.

I am convinced it was mostly the insulting angle with Edge that turned the ROH fans against Hardy, and not his actual performances. Hardy did ROH a great service the way he put over Strong and gave the fans a classic match in the process.

Show Recommendations

The Hardy-Strong match at Punk: The Final Chapter was excellent and well-worth buying. Only buy Hardy's other two appearances, Fate of an Angel and Redemption, if you are a huge Matt Hardy fan and seeing him outside the WWE intrigues you.

Footage of Hardy's re-debut on RAW is available on dailymotion.com. Hardy mentions ROH at the 2:07 mark.

PWTorch VIP members have first-look access to all of Torch ROH specialist Mike DeRosenroll's ROH-related blogs in the VIP Forum. His blogs are posted under the M2_Jay screenname.


Send feedback on this article to pwtorch@gmail.com and we'll regularly publish reader feedback in the "Torch Feedback" category on the Main Listing.

For more BREAKING NEWS on WWE, TNA!
VISIT OUR AFFILIATE - PROWRESTLING.NET


For UFC & MMA NEWS & BLOGS:
VISIT OUR SISTER SITE - MMATORCH.COM

Upgrade to PWTORCH VIP: DETAILS & SIGN-UP INFO


MORE "The Specialists" ARTICLES
UNDER THE MICROSCOPE - TNA Impact 11/5: TNA = The Office, What Vince Russo was thinking during Dixie Carter's speech, Desmond Wolfe and Duran Duran, Highlander spotting, Numbers - Titleholders since 1990
11/3 WWE ECW Hits & Misses: Goldust vs. Regal, Ryder's POV, Burchill - Hurricane
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - Chris Jericho Should Drink Some Shut Up Juice, Zack Ryder Fantasizes About Mrs. Potato, Vance Archer - Who Wants to Get Infected Tonight?, I Love TNA!
11/2 WWE Raw Hits & Misses: Miz vs. Bourne, Raw's Got Talent, Kofi - Orton, Cena vs. Jericho vs Show
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - WWE Raw: Sheamus The Bad Barbarian, Chris Masters Finds His New Gimmick, The Beginning Of The End Will Happen When Triple H Retires
HITS & MISSES - TNA IMPACT 10/29: Hulk Hogan the good and bad, Styles Stalker Angle, TNA's handling of Chris Sabin's injury, Title Name change
10/30 WWE Smackdown Hits & Misses: Grisham & Striker, Mysterio - Batista, Kane vs. Jericho
GARDNER'S KEY MOMENT OF THE WEEK: Is Hulk Hogan a difference-maker for TNA or just another addition to the aging roster?
VALENTINO'S MAGIC, MEMORIES, AND MANIA: Top Five Best Hell in a Cell matches and why they worked - HBK vs. Taker, Batista vs. Triple H
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - WWE Smackdown: WWE Gives Into Matt Hardy's Demands to Showcase Acting Ability, Scott Armstrong's a Hulkamaniac, Rey and Big Dave Have a Moment
10/29 WWE Superstars Hits & Misses: Swagger vs. Primo, Cryme Tyme & Truth vs. Hart Dynasty & Knox
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - TNA Impact: Kurt Angle Is Fine, Ladies And Gentlemen...and we guess Chris Sabin too, plus more Humble Hero Hulk Hogan Hogwash!
UNDER THE MICROSCOPE - TNA Impact 10/29: TNA defends Chris Sabin injury, Prince Justice flashback, Qualifications for Legends Title shot?, Numbers - Hulk Hogan's age vs. TNA roster
PARKS BLOG: WWE is still relevant (to kids, at least)
10/27 WWE ECW Hits & Misses: Abraham Washington Show, Shaemus vs. Benjamin, Christian vs. Tatsu
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - Hogan & ECW: Why Hogan Joined TNA, New Announcer Bryon Saxton Doesn't Want To Wake The Baby, Tatsu Is Annoyingly Adorable
10/26 WWE Raw Hits & Misses: Kofi Kingston's Big Night, Shaemus, Hornswoggle
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL Raw Review - Kofi Hates Bugs, Stephanie McMahon Is Married To Two Men, Michael Cole Makes John Cena Eat Lead, Didn't Jack Swagger Vow Not to Lose Again in 2009?
PARKS BLOG: Bragging Rights PPV hangout report - What are the chances of D.H. Smith pinning Triple H?, Don't Touch the Red Button, Vintage Bragging Rights!
GARDNER'S KEY MOMENT OF THE WEEK: WWE reshuffles the Bragging Rights PPV line-up

(c) 1999-2009 TDH Communications Inc. - All rights reserved.

Current Top Ten Staff Picks
Staff Picks
TNA News: Ratings are in for Thursday's Impact - did TNA retain the audience from last week's Hulk Hogan Impact?
WWE News: Major update on 2010 PPVs - price change, PPV name change, WWE addresses PPV criticism (w/Detailed Analysis)
WWE News: WWE announces details on three-hour Raw featuring Slammy Award Show and special guest host Dennis Miller
WWE News: Report on WWE's conference call with investors - serious discussion of WWE TV, Vince McMahon: "This is not a Family Business"
WWE News: WWE announces third quarter 2009 earnings results - revenue up due to int'l, PPV business weak
WWE News: Raw TV ratings are in - how did the Osbournes fare as guest hosts?
WWE/TNA News: Hulk Hogan claims he taught Vince McMahon the wrestling business, talks more about his role in TNA
WWE Raw Results 11/2: KELLER'S rundown of all matches and segments, plus analysis, star ratings, quotebook
TNA News: Ratings are in for Hulk Hogan Impact - did the publicity help TNA?
WWE News: Hulk Hogan knocks WWE Hall of Fame ring and Vince McMahon in mainstream interview


TORCH QUICK-CLICK REFERENCE LIST
-CLICK TO FOLLOW PWTORCH ON TWITTER!
-CLICK FOR OUR FREE PWTORCH IPHONE APP

-CLICK FOR OUR FREE PODCAST (#1 in iTunes!)
-CLICK TO GET INFO ON BECOMING A VIP MEMBER
-CLICK TO VISIT MMATORCH.COM
-CLICK TO VISIT PROWRESTLING.NET

-CLICK TO EMAIL PWTORCH EDITORS




PWTORCH READER POLL

SMACKDOWN POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/6 Smackdown if you saw the show?
Chris Jericho
The Undertaker
Batista
Rey Mysterio
Matt Hardy
C.M. Punk
R-Truth
Dolph Ziggler
Hart Dynasty
Cryme Tyme
John Morrison
Drew McIntyre
Jimmy Wang Yang
Mike Knox
Beth Phoenix
Mickie James
Michelle McCool
Ref Scott Armstrong
Matt Striker
Brittany Carter
  

VOTE IN OR SEE RESULTS OF PREVIOUS POLLS

ARE YOU VIP? SIGN UP NOW FOR $7.50 A MONTH FOR INSTANT ACCESS TO AD-FREE, BENEFIT-PACKED VIP VERSION OF PWTORCH.COM (see screen capture)
PWTORCH VIP HOME PAGE

INFO ON SUBSCRIPTION TO AD-FREE VIP SITE

INCREDIBLE BENEFITS!
Over 50 full-length audio updates per month (iPod compatible)... New weekly award-winning Pro Wrestling Torch Newsletter (text and printable pdf versions) with latest exclusive insider news, new Torch Talks, great columns, Keller's cover story, much more... Hundreds of full-length back issues of PWTorch Newsletter from late-'80s to today... Ad-free access to PWTorch.com's Main Listing... VIP Forum with interaction with other subscribers and Torch staff... Torch Talk Library with text and audio of hundreds of interview installments from last 20 years... Great layout... Deepest archives on pro wrestling history anywhere... Keller's PWTorch Today PDF Bulletins with email alerts... VIP Email reports on major PPVs and TV shows... Staff Roundtable Reviews (text and audio) followiing major events... The best staff of writers and world class reporting since 1987... We'd love for you to join us and experience the most entertaining, authoritative, experienced staff of professional reporters and commentators in the business...

SIGN ME UP NOW!

Compare the value of four or five months of PWTorch VIP content to the price of just one PPV. Can you cut 25 cents a day from your budget to make room for PWTorch VIP?

AND NEW FOR 2009!
Monthly "Vintage Audio Torch Talks." We are releasing for the first time ever audio versions of our text Torch Talk updates, the historical first series of insider interviews ever. Wade Keller's newsmaking in-depth interviews with wrestling's biggest names are now being made available exclusively to VIP members. But you must be a member each month, as these are not archived, so they are replaced with a new one each month! This debuted in January 2009 with a 68 minute interview with the late "British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith. Who's next? Hulk Hogan? Eric Bischoff? The Rock? Goldberg? Jeff Hardy?

SIGN ME UP NOW!


UPCOMING EVENTS LISTING

Articles Grouped by Category
Torch Today
TORCH MONTHLY AWARD VOTING: Polls OPEN for best/worst in pro wrestling from the month of October (Part 2 of 2)
TORCH MONTHLY AWARD VOTING: Polls OPEN for best/worst in pro wrestling from the month of October (Part 1 of 2)
WWE RAW 11/2: Place Your Bets on tonight's Raw - Week 11 featuring Ozzy & Sharon Osbourne
WWE News
WWE News: WrestleMania 26 tickets officially on-sale today
WWE News: WWE books Intercontinental Title match for next week's Smackdown, adds match to the Survivor Series PPV
WWE News: What's on WWE Smackdown tonight - Batista vs. Matt Hardy, Punk faces the Truth
TNA News
TNA News: Ratings are in for Thursday's Impact - did TNA retain the audience from last week's Hulk Hogan Impact?
TNA News: Next week's TNA Impact - Sting reappearing to talk Hulk Hogan, A.J. Styles vs. Samoa Joe
TNA News: Watch TNA president Dixie Carter's "Love it or Leave It" speech to the roster from Impact (w/VIDEO)
ROH News
ROH News: Jim Cornette officially begins as ROH executive producer at today's ROH TV tapings (w/VIDEO)
ROH News: Ring of Honor receives positive press for ROH TV taping this weekend
ROH News: ROH TV episodes now available on DirecTV's Video-On-Demand service
Other News
Hogan News: Can Hulk Hogan wrestle again? Hogan needs help walking during TV interview (w/VIDEO)
DGUSA News: Gabe Sapolsky predicts the wrestling industry will die without new TV wrestling stars
Hogan News: Hulk Hogan cracks the Top 15 of a Best-sellers List
PPV Reports
RADICAN'S DGUSA "Untouchable" PPV review - Doi vs. Danielson, Shingo vs. Richards
10/25 WWE Bragging Rights Results: KELLER'S detailed match-by-match PPV report - Cena vs. Orton Iron Man match
CALDWELL'S WWE BRAGGING RIGHTS PPV REPORT 10/25: Ongoing "virtual time" coverage of Cena vs. Orton, Team Raw vs. Team Smackdown
TV Reports
PARKS' WWE SMACKDOWN REPORT 11/6: Ongoing "virtual time" coverage of the show, including Batista vs. Hardy
CALDWELL'S WWE SUPERSTARS TV REPORT 11/5: Complete coverage of Chris Jericho vs. Finlay edition
CALDWELL'S TNA IMPACT REPORT 11/5: Complete coverage of Dixie Carter addressing TNA roster, Styles vs. Daniels
Arena Reports
11/4 WWE in Dublin, Ireland: John Cena vs. Jack Swagger WWE Title match, DX vs. Legacy, Randy Orton vs. Kofi Kingston
10/30 Dragon Gate in Germany: Young Bucks, CIMA vs. Mike Quackenbush, El Generico
10/23 TNA in Chicago, Ill.: A.J. Styles vs. Samoa Joe, Matt Morgan vs. Scott Steiner, Rhino vs. Kip James
MMA / UFC Coverage
FEDOR vs. BRETT ROGERS on CBS Saturday Night - Torch Team Coverage (redirect)
MMA WEEK-IN-REVIEW: Lesnar Out, Dumbass of Week, Fight of Week, Kimbo Rumor, DVR + Twitter = Spoiler (redirect)
UFC News: Forrest Griffin addresses devastating loss to Anderson Silva, running from Octagon afterward, Tito Ortiz fight (redirect)
KELLER'S TAKE
KELLER BLOG: Dixie Carter asks wrestlers to step it up, but what does that mean? Shouldn't their goal to be winning matches and nothing else?
KELLER FLASHBACK: Review of Hulk Hogan's first autobiography - Hogan's political maneuvers evident in who he protects and buries
KELLER BLOG: Is a new Monday Night War imminent? Signs point that direction
MITCHELL'S TAKE
MOJO MITCHELL'S RAW 11/2: Stream of My Fourth Grade Hero and The Mid-Card Kicks Main Event Ass
MITCHELL FLASHBACK #4: In 1993, after Hogan first left the WWF, he had a lot of career choices
MITCHELL FLASHBACK #3: Hogan's autobiography review - insight into his world
MCNEILL'S TAKE
McNEILL BLOG: The Big Questions About Hulk Hogan in TNA
Fight For Your Right to Bragging: McNEILL Previews WWE Bragging Rights!
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah! McNEILL Previews TNA Bound for Glory 2009
CALDWELL'S TAKE
CALDWELL'S BLOG: Vince McMahon is officially delusional, plus Vince's hidden message to Stephanie McMahon
CALDWELL'S TUESDAY CHAT w/GREG PARKS: Raw & Smackdown discussion - Orton-Kofi build-up compared to Rey-Batista, DX dissension, Sheamus stands out
CALDWELL FLASHBACK: TNA Year-End Review 2005 - Must-read flashback to when TNA became a choice for wrestlers in an era very, very similar to 2009
RADICAN'S TAKE
RADICAN: Wolfe-Angle follow up displays typical warning signs of danger from creative standpoint
RADICAN: TNA finally straps a rocket on the right ass
RADICAN'S TAKE: An answer to Bruce Mitchell's question about HIAC PPV
The Specialists
UNDER THE MICROSCOPE - TNA Impact 11/5: TNA = The Office, What Vince Russo was thinking during Dixie Carter's speech, Desmond Wolfe and Duran Duran, Highlander spotting, Numbers - Titleholders since 1990
11/3 WWE ECW Hits & Misses: Goldust vs. Regal, Ryder's POV, Burchill - Hurricane
ABSURDITY OF IT ALL - Chris Jericho Should Drink Some Shut Up Juice, Zack Ryder Fantasizes About Mrs. Potato, Vance Archer - Who Wants to Get Infected Tonight?, I Love TNA!
Guest Editorials
GUEST EDITORIAL: Disgruntled TNA fan says he's done with the promotion after today's Impact taping (Contains SPOILERS)
GUEST EDITORIAL: The ultimate irony - Hulk Hogan appears on TNA Impact and pre-taped TV sitcom promoting WWE on the same night
GUEST BOOK REVIEW: Hulk Hogan provides strong defense of his public image in new autobiography
Torch Feedback
TNA Impact Reax #2: "I'm tired of non-stop talking. This isn't a Broadway play; it's professional wrestling and the best stories are told in the ring"
Thursday Night TV Reax #1: "I feel anything TNA does right is inevitably drowned out by what they fail at"
ECW TV Reax #1: "William Regal has stepped up big time since coming to ECW and he deserves a World Title run"
Ask the Editor
Ask the Editor: Wouldn't incorporating MMA-style holds into pro wrestling matches just be trying to be something it's not?
ASK THE EDITOR: Have the Michaels-Batista promos crossed a line with use of insider terms, references to "jobs"?
ASK THE EDITOR: Why do wrestlers in WWE refer to wrestling as "the business" and not "the sport"?
DVDs - VGames - Books
VIDEO GAME REVIEW - Smackdown vs. Raw 2010: WWE's latest video game called best since the No Mercy measuring stick
RADICAN'S ROH DVD REVIEW SERIES: 7/24 DBD VII: N1 - Hero & Richards vs. Storm & Steen
RADICAN'S CHIKARA DVD REVIEW: 5/24 "Anniversario Yang" - The Colony vs. F.I.S.T, 8-Man Tag
Torch Flashbacks
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about Eric Bischoff, the demise of WCW
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about his relationship with Ric Flair
TORCH TALK FLASHBACK with Hulk Hogan: Hogan talks to PWTorch editor Wade Keller about his relationship with Vince Russo
VIP Exclusive Features
5+ HOURS: Definitive all-new Eric Bischoff "Torch Talk" available exclusively to PWTorch VIP members
11/6 Bruce Mitchell Audio Show: Why Vince McMahon said WWE isn't a family business, Hulk Hogan-TNA analysis, Dixie Carter's last-gasp speech (65 min.)
PWTorch Newsletter #1115_16 (31 pages!): Hogan-Bischoff-TNA Deal Covered In-Depth - Keller, McNeill, and Powell, plus six pages of Eric Bischoff Torch Talk, and much more
Torch Trivia
TORCH TRIVIA 2/28: Which wrestler backed out of a WWA PPV in February 2002?
TORCH TRIVIA 2/27: Who said this quote about Hulk Hogan's athleticism 11 years ago?
TORCH TRIVIA 2/25: What said this quote about WWE's mid-1990s drug testing policy?
Torch Instant Polls
SMACKDOWN POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/6 Smackdown if you saw the show?
TNA IMPACT POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/5 Impact if you saw the show?
ECW POLL: Who was the MVP of the 11/3 ECW if you saw the show?
PWTorch Free Podcast
11/4 Nostalgia Audio with Brian Hoops: Format change to the show, new guest host, upcoming shows
FREE FOR ALL: 10/27 Bruce Mitchell Audio Special: Hogan-Bischoff-TNA story from all angles including Monday Night War II possibilities (32 min.)
6/23 Nostalgia Audio with Brian Hoops: Former WCW rapmaster PN News joins Brian Hoops to preview upcoming Midwest shows (10 min.)
Annual Obituaries
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 1999 - Muchnick, Rick Rude, Owen Hart, Renegade...
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 2000 - Solie, Albright, Duncum, Tsuruta, Blue Demon, Al Costello
SPECIALIST: List of Deceased Wrestlers for 2001: Johnny Valentine, Terry Gordy, Chris Adams, Bertha Faye, Helen Hart