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STONE COLD PODCAST REPORT 6/1: Paul Heyman discusses Brock Lesnar, how close Lesnar came to returning to UFC, C.M. Punk, relationship with McMahon, road stories, art of the promo, WWE stars disconnected from audience, more

Jun 2, 2015 - 3:26:48 AM
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"Stone Cold" Steve Austin Live Podcast
Guest: Paul Heyman
June 1, 2015
Episode #3 on WWE Network
Report by James Caldwell, PWTorch assistant editor


Immediately after Monday's Raw from San Antonio concluded, WWE Network picked up with "Stone Cold" Steve Austin's podcast return. After two episodes hosted by Chris Jericho, Austin returned to the chair with Paul Heyman as his guest.

Live from a backstage location at the AT&T Center in San Antonio, Austin noted they're just 75 miles away from the ol' Broken Skull Ranch. Austin sent a special message to viewers in Texas cities affected by last week's flooding, especially in Austin's home region of South Texas. Austin noted Texas has been in drought conditions for a few years and needed the rain, but too much came too soon. All very true.

Austin then got down to business addressing Paul Heyman sitting opposite him. They shook hands and exchanged pleasantries. Heyman said he feels like he should be the one interviewing Austin. After Austin got stumped on the capital of Nebraska, Austin went through their history in the wrestling business. But, he wanted to know when they first met. Heyman recalled meeting at Center Stage in Atlanta when Austin first came to WCW from Texas. Heyman recalled Austin hitting the ropes so hard that he thought Austin was going to break the ring. A few weeks later, they were manager and wrestler.

Heyman followed with a break down of The Dangerous Alliance being created with Rick Rude as the center-piece trying to create a new version of the Four Horsemen. Heyman said he talked to then-booker Dusty Rhodes about the Alliance, but he said they're missing one piece. Heyman pitched Steve Austin being part of the group. Dusty was not convinced, so Heyman played the Texas card. Dusty bit, saying he knew the next big star would be from Texas. Heyman jokingly said Dusty took credit for the idea and Heyman thanked Dusty for the idea.

Austin and Heyman then discussed whether Rude was cool with the idea of Austin being part of the group. Heyman said Rude was on-board because he recognized Austin's intensity in the ring. Heyman said Austin came in and made his matches look like a fight.

This brought Austin to "intensity," specifically Brock Lesnar. Where is he? Heyman said Brock is coming back rather soon after being on his farm. Heyman said what's great about Brock is what you see is what you get. Heyman said he uses his money from WWE and UFC to buy more farmland because that's who he is. And, a hunter. Austin said he's been trying to line up a hunt with Lesnar for years.

Austin followed up by asking whether Lesnar was doing a leverage play on potentially going back to UFC. Heyman said Lesnar opened a mini-training camp in January and prepared that if he did not re-sign with WWE, he would enter into a full training camp to go back into UFC. Heyman said the discussion in Lesnar's head never got to who his first opponent would be, rather that he would be ready for anyone. Heyman said Brock felt very torn on his decision because his WWE run was so enjoyable for him. Specifically, ending The Streak and decimating John Cena at Summerslam. Heyman said Lesnar has always challenged himself, but he was finally enjoying himself in WWE, which weighed heavily in the decision.

Austin responded by saying many people believe Lesnar does not enjoy the business because of how he approaches it. Heyman responded that Lesnar loves the business, but he loves being with his children more than WWE needs Lesnar. Also, Heyman argued, it's special when Lesnar does show up. He said a Brock Lesnar match is can't-miss television. Heyman said when they come on television, it's special.

Austin said if Brock is not going to be on television, then why isn't Paul on TV? Heyman said Brock and he have such a defined relationship on television that works because it mirrors their real-life partnership. So, it translates on TV. But, when he gets put with someone else, it's Brock Lesnar's Guy with Heyman. Heyman noted that it worked with "Punk" (C.M. Punk) because they also have a strong relationship. Reading between the lines, Heyman doesn't think the infamous association with Cesaro last year worked out too well.

Austin followed up on the C.M. Punk comment by asking how often he talks to him. Heyman said they text or talk on a daily basis because their relationship is not based on "the business" and what's happening in wrestling. Austin asked Heyman what he thinks about Punk going to UFC after being burned out on wrestling. Heyman said money is not the motivating factor, rather the challenge of having a pro fight. Heyman said this was the time to pull the trigger and Punk believes he will step into the octagon and shock everyone with a win or get knocked out and see what happens.

Austin shifted to selling. Cue up the DDT discussion. He said Jake Roberts hit the DDT and it was over. Now, everyone kicks out of finishers. Heyman said The Rock's dad used to win matches with a dropkick. Austin jumped to the opposite spectrum of ECW when people smashed each other with weapons, prompting Heyman to laugh about that not being a great example. Austin centered it back to the current WWE landscape of a lack of selling. Heyman said if you take someone like Mark Henry who has obvious strength and gave him a headlock finisher, he could make it work. And then no one can use a headlock anymore, or else you answer to Henry and Vince McMahon, in order to protect the move. Heyman said moves will get over if you focus on the move, have the announcers react as if the move is unique and devastating, and everyone on the roster is aware of protecting it.

Austin shifted to tonight's Raw episode. Specifically, Kevin Owens and John Cena promo'ing. But, there's something missing in the big picture in the promo department. Austin said Paul has always had the gift of gab, so what's the art and science of a promo? Paul said the key is asking where the money is, which he learned from Dusty Rhodes. Heyman flashed back to his very first Starrcade build-up in WCW. Heyman said he was given four minutes at the end of a TV episode, so he filled the time doing all sorts of entertaining things trying to put everyone over and thought he was such a big star. Then, he went backstage and Dusty asked him: "Where's the money?" Paul said he didn't sell Starrcade in his effort to be entertaining and fill the time. Heyman said he never forgot that lesson.

Heyman said in today's environment sometimes you're just selling a personality, or the "Brrrrrock Lessssssnar" catchphrase. Heyman said he approaches promos by asking himself what he's selling. Austin said a lot of people didn't like Ultimate Warrior's promos, but he did because it furthered his belief in the Warrior character. He said sometimes it's not just content, but how you say it. Heyman said he looks at today's promos and sees a disconnect, especially guys coming to the ring and immediately starting to pontificate about "what happened last week on Smackdown." Which is why he comes to the ring and introduces himself to engage the audience so that he can sell a match by establishing who he is, what he does, and why he's here. Heyman said he thinks they have lost the art of engaging the audience and are now preaching to the audience. Austin followed by noting some little bad habits that wrestlers have standing opposite each other with mics in their hands.

Austin moved on to Heyman's introduction to the business hustling his way into WWF/E under Vince McMahon, Sr. Heyman shared some fascinating time-period stories about his entry and coming up with the "Andre Shot" of Andre the Giant talking to Vince, Sr. in the MSG hallway. He noted that Vince, Sr. liked his pictures, so a WWF official always paid him $50 in exchange for photos and to cover his expenses. But, it never came directly from Vince, Sr.

Austin transitioned to a discussion of the different visions for pro wrestling from Vince, Sr. to Vince, Jr. Heyman talked about it being a different time in the territory era, so when times started changing with cable television, Joe Blanchard of right here in San Antonio cut a deal with USA Network. So, the roots of expansion and testing the parameters were out there. Heyman said Superstation TBS was on early cable TV. So, when Vince, Jr. bought the territory, he was entering into a new era of distribution. No longer was it just syndicating the TV product to a select era, but now the territory was the entire country.

But, Austin countered, Vince, Sr. was loyal to the territory system even at the advent of cable TV expansion. Heyman said the question that no one was willing to ask back then. If Vince, Sr. was five years younger, would he have stuck to the territorial boundaries, or would he have seen what was about to happen with national cable distribution and understood that if he did not do it, then Barnett, Crocket, Bill Watts, and even Verne Gagne were going to try it? And, Verne did because he landed on ESPN. Joe Blanchard got there first, but Heyman thinks if Vince, Sr. were five years younger, he would have had no choice but to travel that road and take on national competition. Was he ruthless, aggressive, and assertive enough to do it? Heyman said he's not sure. But, Vince, Jr. sure was.

Austin said Vince told him he would get death threats back in the day. Heyman said he witnessed every month that Lou Albano wanted to kill Vince. He said Albano would get hammered at the monthly MSG show, then blame everything wrong on "the kid," Vince McMahon. Captain Lou hated Vince because Lou was loyal to Vince, Sr. and he thought Vince, Jr. was in the wrong with his expansion ideas and booking ideas. So, Lou got fired. And then he would get some coffee, sober up, and come back to apologize and get his job back.

Austin brought up Heyman having his ups and downs with Vince McMahon. Heyman said he thinks they get along better than they ever have because they're not interacting on a daily basis and he's not driving him crazy trying to tell him how to save the industry. Heyman said their dynamic is he was hired to give the contrarian opinion. So, no matter what Vince said, he came up with the alternative or the opposite view, but Vince was about "let's do what I think," so they always butted heads and were contentious for many years.

Heyman said fatherhood has mellowed him out, then he side-tracked to saying he's never done a line of cocaine in his life because he didn't want to be that person who tried it, his heart exploded, and his dad had to look down at him in his grave. But, no one back in the day would have believed that because he was so amped up and high-strung. And now that fatherhood has chilled him out, it's changed his approach to what they do in WWE. It used to be that he lived and breathed for every single thing that happened on the show as head writer. Heyman laughed that his mission got him fired.

Heyman recalled being on the corporate plane, prompting Austin to ask Heyman about an infamous plane ride in 2006. Heyman said it was time for him to go and he had lost his passion and purpose in the industry. He said they re-ignited the ECW brand, which was very personal to him. And, he didn't like the way it was going. So, it became a very personal fight between him and Vince. Heyman said he was willing to move back to writing Smackdown, giving ECW to someone else where it wasn't as personal for both of them. Eventually, though, Paul said it became the idea of this town not being big enough for the both of them, so they decided the toxic working relationship just wasn't going to work. Heyman said they had a really, really, really bad show and were looking at each other with hate. And it all came to a head on the plane, so by the time they landed, Vince decided it was time for Heyman to go and Heyman was ready to oblige. Paul said it took five-and-a-half years for them to realize it was a learning experience for both of them.

Austin noted they're down to 10-15 minutes left, so he wanted to talk about some road stories. Austin said the car ride was Heyman, Rick Rude, and himself. Heyman recalled Rude telling Heyman to pull the car over because Rude was so mad about Austin taking the Lord's name in vain by using g-damn in every other sentence. So, Austin apologized and vowed not to say it a g-damn time again. Of course, Rude exploded and got so mad that he just started laughing at himself.

Next was a crazy road story. Heyman said this was back when they didn't have satellites and Sting was the wheelman for the Steiners. So, they would come down the highway and see another car full of wrestlers and do a mid-driving stunt grabbing another passenger by the leg in the opposite car, freaking out everyone. So, one day he was in the car with the Samoans. Heyman said they were heading to a town and they saw Sting's car coming up, so they locked the door. Suddenly, Sting switched the front seat with Steiner and they started chucking food at the Samoans. So, the Samoans told Heyman to pull over at a convenience store so they could load up on food for the ride home. Heyman said it was a full-blown road war featuring items from the convenience store. As a result, their rental car was determined as totaled and the rental car company in Charlotte, N.C. said they would not rent a car to Paul E. Dangerously ever again. To this day, Heyman said, he cannot rent a car in Charlotte.

Austin said he has to wrap this up, but Heyman cut him off to play role reversal. Heyman said he wants to ask Austin a tough question. What does he think of John Cena's springboard stunner? Austin said it's a wasted deal with everyone kicking out of it when they could have established it first. He said the fact that Cena is doing the move doesn't bother him, but now it's just a move that doesn't work to get the pinfall. Austin said he's a vocal John Cena supporter and there is electricity when he goes out to the ring, but he doesn't think the move is worth it. And it's not effective.

Heyman then blurted out a question about Austin facing Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania. Austin said if they did fight, he would beat Lesnar's ass, entering Stone Cold mode. Austin said he's not saying he's going to fight him, but it is what it is. Heyman then gave Austin the big sales pitch of WM32 taking place in Austin's home state of Texas, where it would be The Rattlesnake vs. The Beast in front of 100,000 people. Austin calmly replied that it would be a great place to settle the score, but he would have to think about it. Austin said he thinks they need to ask Brock Lesnar because it's 105,000 people witnessing Brock losing all that momentum by getting his ass smoked by Austin.

Heyman then pulled out his phone, which he turned off for the podcast. Austin told him that all he had to was put on the silencer, he didn't have to turn off the whole phone. Austin said he has Brock's phone number, so maybe he'll talk to him. Austin confidently said he would open up a can on Brock, just as clear as Heyman is sitting in front of him. He started to wrap up, but Paul wanted to know if they could make it happen. Austin said they can discuss it. Heyman said they should negotiate this. Silence. Austin said he has three words for Heyman, then Heyman's phone suddenly buzzed. They figured it was Brock, but Heyman did not reveal the sender. Austin said the only way the match is going to happen is if the stars align and everything comes together.

Austin started to enter sales pitch mode setting up a big Austin vs. Lesnar match, but Heyman got another buzz on his phone. Heyman read the text: "Fire all the writers." Heyman laughed that it's from another writer. Austin shot Heyman a look like "shut up, I'm trying to do business." Austin then gave a big sales pitch of a Texas Death Match because he doesn't want to have a scientific match with a beast like Lesnar. Austin told Paul that if Lesnar finds himself standing across the ring from "Stone Cold" Steve Austin - not the nice guy Steve Austin with a sense of humor hosting this podcast - then Lesnar barked up the wrong tree. Austin said if you start messing with Stone Cold, you're not going to like what you see. Austin, now in Stone Cold mode, said he's getting tired of looking at Paul right now. Paul tried to play nice guy, saying he's just here to talk. Austin said Paul is about to advocate an ass-whipping for Lesnar.

Now with this conversation in "pro wrestling fiction" territory, Heyman embraced his role sheepishly trying to change the subject by asking Austin who his next guest is. Austin said he doesn't care because he's sitting here talking to Paul. Now Paul has the option to leave or get tossed through a window. Austin said he's enjoyed talking to him, and Paul sheepishly thanked him for having him on the show. Austin leaned back and said he's thinking about having a cold beer and thinking about this match proposal. Austin went back to normal and thanked Paul for everything he did for his career, then he looked into the camera to thank everyone for tuning into the podcast with his guest, Paul Heyman. They closed with a shot of Austin staring down Paul to keep selling the Lesnar match idea.

FINAL THOUGHTS: Well, that was interesting. Austin was definitely trying to set up a big match with Lesnar, and Heyman's phone interruption threw things off a bit, but Austin rallied at the end. With Hulk Hogan talking about having a retirement match at WM32 on ESPN SportsCenter earlier in the day, it's apparent that everyone is jockeying for position in a game of musical chairs to see who ends up on the big WM32 card.

As for the interview itself, it felt like they glossed over several subjects. There is so much to dive into from Heyman's career that Austin's gameplan seemed to be hitting the high points of some items from WCW, some things from ECW, some things from Heyman's WWE creative run ten years ago, and some things from present-day WWE to pick apart and evaluate. The main business was definitely at the end.

[Torch art credit Grant Gould (c) PWTorch.com]


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