PWTorch Newsletter Torch Talk Flashback Part 2
"Dirty" Dutch Mantell a/k/a Zeb Colter in current WWE

Originally Published: PWTorch Newsletter #216
Cover-dated March 1, 1993
Interview by Wade Keller, PWTorch editor

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Continued from Part 1.

Keller: You do come up with some good one-liners, too.

Mantell: Well, some are clichéish as hell, but sometimes they fit the deal. You’ve only got so many you can use, anyway. It’s timing and delivery. Tony Schiavone used to say things and I would respond, “Tony, that hurt my feelings.” Now you don’t expect to hear that. “What do you mean I hurt your feelings," he would say. Then I’d go, “When you say things like that, it just bothers me."

Keller: You two worked well together. Did you like working with him?

Mantell: I loved him. I think they made a real mistake when they busted us up. You’re either in the clique or you're not. With Dusty Rhodes, I respect him a lot for his mind. I’ve been in Florida with him, and-oh brother-when he'd walk to the ring, those people would stand up. He had a presence. He had an awe about him, especially in those days. It was magical. But I’ve never been one of Dusty’s guys. I’ve been in territories with him twice and I’ve been slammed twice. The second time I knew it was coming.

Keller: Is that one of Dusty’s faults, being set on people who he is familiar with?

Mantell: All bookers do it.

Keller: Was that Dusty’s biggest fault, or was it finishes, or something else?

Mantell: Yeah, he’d do that. The thing is, these people he used and the finishes he did, the people had already seen it because he’s already been on national TV. He’s got an M.O. about him and he does that. It would work in the older days because people hadn’t seen it. But now there is nothing the fans haven’t seen. All they can do is change personnel. I had a lot of problems with my commentary in Atlanta. They told me I couldn’t acknowledge anybody’s history. Not in so many words, but I’d ask, “Can I mention he was in the WWF?" And they’d say, “No." It was no big deal. I'd say, “What about this," and they’d say, “No, don’t mention that.” A pattern developed and there were more things I couldn't say than I could say. That made it really hard. In Atlanta, I only had one show a week to do. Now we do three at a time. You start digging toward the end of that third hour. I have done four before. Four shows in one night, which is difficult. But then the consummate professional I am, I battle through it.

Keller: Have you enjoyed working with Schiavone in WCW or Caudle in SMW more?

Mantell: It’s like comparing apples and oranges.

Keller: How is Caudle different? You two work well together, too.

Mantell: It's a different environment. I make them look good. They don’t realize that. Tony never realized that. I made him look good. I’ve seen him with other people and they don’t make him look as good as I do. When I started in WCW, we went up to Indianapolis. I really liked Tony. He’s got a great sense of humor and he’s funny, if you get him away from the business. When he’s all wrapped up in the business, he’s not quite so funny sometimes. There was a lot of animosity and dissension at the time. Almost as an afterthought, I said, “Tony, when are we going to do some commentary together." I think he just dismissed it. I don’t even know why I said it. And he walked off. About an hour later, he came up to me and said, “We need you to start doing commentary next week.”

Ole was booking and he was scheduled to be the color commentator. I called up Ole and he said, “Listen, I can’t be up on the set and back in the dressing rooms at the same time. I want you to go out there. Tony has recommended you. I’ve never heard you, but what the hell. Just go out there and do it. Goddamn it, you know what to do. You’re not a damn idiot. Just talk about the match and what’s coming up." You don’t take offense at Ole. That's just the way he talks. I didn’t start until the next week. I think there was some debate whether they wanted me to start or not. I started doing it and lasted about ten months.

Then Dusty came in and I was out the door. He said (imitating Dusty), “Dutch, I like your commentary, you see, but we’re trying to get more talking about wrestling." I've heard all of that hype before. But I think they made a mistake to replace me with Gordon Solie. I respect Gordon for his announcing, but he’s a straight man and Tony’s a straight man. So they put two straight men on the same show. People used to ask me, “Why did they put Gordon in there? Now they’re not fun to listen to." They said they listened to the show to hear what I had to say. That’s always fun to hear.

When I worked with Charlie Platt in Continental - now there is the driest guy in the world. I liked Charlie. He wouldn’t feed me. You’ve got to feed me, throw stuff at me. That’s what I tell Bob. Sometimes Bob steps all over me, he feeds me so much. Tony would feed me. I’d say, “Tony say this, and I’ll say this.” And he would. Many times Tony had to take off his headset because he was laughing so hard. I would just continue to call the match and he’d eventually come back. I told Tony I didn’t want to be like Jim Ross and Paul E. Dangerously. They were too busy trying to one-up each other. I respect both of them. But they were too busy picking on each other.

Sometimes the match would take a back seat to their commentary. Ross was not going to take a back seat to Dangerously. Dangerously was always trying to get him. Sometimes Ross would actually get mad.

Keller: If you hadn’t gotten involved in pro wrestling, would you have pursued a career in the media?

Mantell: Probably. Either that or business, probably. I had a business when I was in high school, a maintenance firm. It was very small, just a one-man operation. I was making like - this was when the minimum wage was about a dollar and a quarter an hour. I was making like $75 a week and working three hours a week. Sometimes you don’t know when you've got it good. I said, “I hate this stuff.” All I had to do was go in and scrub floors and ceilings and stuff like that. It was basically one of the only jobs I had. I could pick my own hours. Some places I’d clean twice a week and sometimes once a week. Three hours was the actual working time plus driving. It was $75 a week. I would either be doing that or be in radio or sales.

Keller: Is there anything in your career that you would take back?

Mantell: A lot of it. It’s been just bad timing. I went to Charlotte one time and didn’t stay. I don’t know why I did that. I was nuts. It was a bad year, my father died. That was 1980, a really bad year. Then some other personal things happened and it affected my business. There are a lot of things I would take back. Sometimes I wish I had a crystal ball and could foresee some things happening. I wish I had a market analyst telling me what the trend was so I could get in on it. You either hit it or you don’t. If you miss it completely, you go back and revise what you have and try again. That's what life's all about.

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