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Torch Talk with Jeff Hardy, pt. 3
Originally Published: October 8, 2005
Torch Newsletter #882

The following is the third installment of a two-and-a-half hour "Torch Talk" interview with Jeff Hardy conducted Sept. 15. In future installments, he speaks freely and openly about the Matt Hardy-Lita-Edge situation, explaining when he doubted his brother and why, how he feels bad for how he treated Lita and Edge during the ordeal, why he sees two sides to the story, why Matt decided to return to WWE, and how he thinks Matt handled the personal issue in a public way.

Wade Keller: It appears you're being set up to eventually feud again with Jeff Jarrett over the NWA Hvt. Title. Are you happy with that direction and being utilized in that way? Do you feel comfortable being one of the guys who's feuding with Jarrett going into one of the biggest periods in that company's history?

Jeff Hardy Oh, yeah, I feel super-comfortable. I'm even doing one independent show. You know, I don't do independents and that's one thing I need to do more than anything as far as getting back into cardiovascular shape and not blowing up as fast. I'm doing a big independent show in Concord, N.C. on the 24th and I'm totally tickled to be involved with Jeff in any kind of match, hopefully a gimmick match of some type.

Keller: What do you do now to stay in shape? Do you do anything else, such as jogging? Do you have a gym in your house? Do you work out? How do you keep yourself somewhat in shape for the matches?

Hardy I don't hardly do any (of that). I work a lot outside and stuff, natural work like shovelling. But I've just got a few barbells and do a little bit of benching with what I've got here. I don't go to any gym or anything or go out of my way to train or see how much I can lift and get lots of reps. I just do some concentration drills here and there and some natural work outside.

Keller: At any time during your career have you taken steroids?

Hardy No. That's something I never took.

Keller: Were you ever tempted? Was there a reason you didn't take them when so many other wrestlers have?

Hardy I was tempted to do it way back in the day because I just felt small and everything. Then I was, like, the more we were doing jobs and stuff, we totally sensed that there was more welcoming for smaller guys or whatever. I was never close to even doing it. But it's hard not to think about it when you're small and you're in there with a bunch of giants. But, I totally feel comfortable being a smaller person now and how everything worked out and how I worked out through all that time in WWE.

Keller: In TNA, you're about the average size of the talent in that company.

Hardy Oh, yeah. And I think that's cool. That's one thing with TNA. It seems like everybody is... it kind of sucks when there's all these muscleheads in there and there aren't any cool looking rockers who aren't all jacked up. I think it'd be a dull show if everybody was all jacked up in great shape and had abs of steel. Different dimensions and different shapes is always good.

Keller: You mentioned earlier that you hoped you had some kind of a gimmick match if you wrestled Jeff. Do you enjoy working just a straight wrestling match? Do you take that as a challenge? Or do you always prefer to have something extracurricular going on to add spice to it?

Hardy I would much rather have some type of gimmick match with ladders or tables, especially now at this point in my career. I feel better going into that. I feel that's my style as compared to a regular match. Actually, there's a lot more going on in a regular match if you look at it in the way of just highspots. With gimmick matches I like how you can do a nice impressive spot and then actually sell it for the proper time and take your time and make everything mean something as compared to a regular match. I would much rather do a gimmick match.

Keller: Are you from the school of thought that you should before a match plot out certain key points in a match, but otherwise feel your way through and react to the crowd? Or are you the other extreme, like with Dallas Page, where everything is scripted out almost move for move?

Hardy I don't like to try to remember a match written down on paper. I just like to go out there with as (little as possible planned). Just mainly opening spots and the closing spot, then feeling the rest out. I totally hate at the last pay-per-view where there was so much that was trying to be remembered. They wanted to get so much in. I totally like feeling it out there from the crowd and not having to remember too much.

Keller: If you had a choice between only working X Division style matches for the next few years in TNA or never getting to work an X Division match and only working Heavyweight Division matches with Jeff Jarrett, Rhino, Abyss, Lance Hoyt, those types, which would you choose?

Hardy Oh, definitely the Heavyweight Division for the Heavyweight Title. The X Division, I don't feel I want to even get close to that. When I take part in the X Division, I just want to be watching it on the monitor. I'm creeped out and scared to even try to compete with those guys, man.

Keller: But you were talking just a few minutes ago about how a few years ago you wanted to be flying in the air, upside down, and have Brock Lesnar tackle you. Now you're saying you're scared of the X Division. Have you changed or is the X Division style just too much of that type of thing for you to handle?

Hardy If I still felt like I did back then, saying that, I'm sure - well, no, because just a spot like that, the flipping and the speed of those guys and the shape that they're in to do what they do and jump around and be so fast, I've always been a one spotter with big shots that you sell 'em right. They're crazy spots at times, but I probably would have said the same thing back then - that I couldn't hang with the X Division.

Keller: That's amazing because the Hardy Boyz, and you were the more spectacular of the two, were the WWF version of what WCW had with the cruiserweights. You were the ones the fans looked at for that modern athleticism that they had never seen before. Here you are as a pioneer and you're still young, yet in a sense, you're just saying that style had surpassed you in what you can or want to try to do at this point.

Hardy You know, when I used to run the curve (the security railing) in the WWF - and I'm surprised nobody still does that since I left - I'd always try to be innovative.

Keller: Are there times that you believe the X Division guys do more than they have to in order to accomplish the same thing? Could they actually do less and have it mean more if they made the big spots mean more?

Hardy Yeah. That's the main thing with the whole X Division. Fans at home, when they have the gimmick matches where there's a lot of people in the ring, they do so much. Just watching that from putting myself in the fans' position, and from what I've heard, they say "A.J. Styles and the X Division, that is awesome." The fans naturally love that. But I think they could get away with doing a lot less. But there's also part of me that says just let 'em loose and let 'em go because that's what the X Division is all about. If they can do it, let 'em do it. Honestly, I think they could get by with doing less. The fans love that stuff and I think they'd love it just as much if they didn't do as much. Then again, you just can't tell guys like that. If they feel it, if they can, they'll do it.

Keller: I had written an editorial five years ago when you were in the WWF, and the headline was something to the effect that the WWF needed to step in and stop the Hardys and Edge & Christian from killing themselves early in their careers. The types of matches you guys were having so often looked like they were going to take their toll and shorten your careers. Do you think everybody, especially you four in different ways, have adjusted your style? You took time off, Matt adjusted his style, and Edge and Christian have really changed also. They don't do those TLC matches anymore. Do you think that was out of necessity because your bodies couldn't handle it anymore or was it because you just felt that you learned and established yourself enough that you didn't have to do it anymore?

Hardy Anytime I see one of the TLC matches, I'm way proud of it. But it does seem that was the height of the bar where they had to start going in reverse or they had to go back to the basics or whatever. I always watch when I'm hanging onto the belt and I've got the big-ass ladder in my feet and I'm walking the ladder in just that one scene and I think, What in the hell was going on? That was right before I got speared or something from there. Those matches were so crazy - a good kind of crazy. But you get to that point where you can't keep going. Like that motorcross stuff today. I think they're at that point. What are you going to do? Two backflips on these dirtbikes? You get to the point where you can't continue to top what you do, so you kind of got to go back to the basics. I think those TLC matches are one of the prime examples of why WWE started trying to get back to keeping things simple.

Keller: Did management - Vince McMahon, agents, anyone - ever walk up to you four during the TLC era, and the Dudleys were part of that too, and say, "You know what, you need to cut it in half, and make that half that you still do mean more?" Or did they just say, "Go out and have at it?"

Hardy We would also discuss it, sometimes two nights before. Previously, we'd all get together and work it out. But there was never a time like that. It was pretty much they set us free after we had it worked out. The idea was there and it was seen on paper by all the TV people. Nobody ever tried to hold us back. We were able to agree on all the spots we were going to do.

Keller: We talked quite a bit in the Ultimate Insiders DVD about the TLC matches and what went into planning them, but one added question we didn't cover in the DVD is did you think during that time, "This is what we need to do in order to establish ourselves so that we get over enough that we don't need to keep doing this?" Or when you were doing it, did you think, "We're just going to keep doing this until we can't do it anymore; this is what we do?"

Hardy I just think about Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, the main event guys at that time that weren't doing all that stuff, I can't help but think how good it could have been if we were portrayed on Raw like them, if we had the mic time and everything where fans got to know us just as good as they knew them. Here we are doing that stuff in the ring with all the ladders, and I think it could have been great. But then you've got to have your main eventers. It would have been awesome if we had more mic time and the fans would have known us better. The main eventers were all on at the start of Raw with promos and mic time during pretapes. It would have been really cool. But I don't guess we could have done that because nobody could step into the territory of the main eventers.

Keller: Were you ever after a big match in WWE, collectively or individually, disappointed with how WWE followed up on it? Did you feel you did something really special and significant, and then the next day on Raw, it was almost an afterthought? It was like, "Thanks for the good show, but now back to the main event guys." Did you feel let down sometimes in that way?

Hardy Yeah. One thing I remember getting super excited about was when Team Xtreme was still together and we were doing the thing with Steve Austin and Hunter. We had a few tag matches with them. We were the main event on Raw, I think one week, and it was the first time I had ever taken the Stunner. That's one thing I always looked forward to. I had a new way to take it to make it look really good other than just jumping straight back. I was all excited about it. Then we had the match and something happened and Steve's foot got caught in my shirt. It still looked good, but it wasn't exactly like I wanted to do it. But it went nowhere. We were all excited even after the match because the fans were all into it. It was a tag team main event. "This is going to be great. We're going to be in a run with these guys." The next week it was, like, "Where'd it go? What's wrong?" They were doing something else and we were just kind of out of the picture. I don't know if it was throughout that match they thought the fans were getting into us, so decisions were made to keep us out of the picture because we'd be more over than them. I don't know if it was something like that. It makes you wonder, you know. It makes you think. There aren't answers all the time. Most of the time there's no answers. It's like trying to figure out the stars.

Keller: Were there other times after big matches that you thought you'd get more TV time and interview time and it would be all they're talking about, but then the next time at Raw, you see the script, and you find out you're in a three minute match and there's no follow-up? Was that demoralizing, or did you accept that you weren't a top level act and that's the way it works?

Hardy I would always find myself thinking like, "Once we get to that age or whatever, our time will come. We'll just sit back and wait." One thing I remember getting excited about was if we were to get mic time as the Hardy Boyz, we were going to do a thing where I'd open up with something poetic and kind of strange, but then Matt would follow up to cut a promo. We had mentioned that to people and there were hopes at times that we might get to do something like that. It wouldn't necessarily make sense, but I would just say something poetic to open up, then Matt would cut a promo saying whatever he wanted to say. But that never happened, and maybe it was for the best.

Keller: But you guys had put thought into it so if they asked you to do something one of those weeks, you'd be ready.

Hardy Exactly. We were ready.

Keller: Looking at the way the X Division Style has developed, I asked earlier if you thought they could slow down. Do you think that with the bar set at the level it now is, including what happened with the Samoa Joe vs. Christopher Daniels vs. A.J. Styles match at the last PPV, that there a way to turn back, or are fans going to demand that kind of breathtaking physical toll match every time now? Is that a problem that TNA is getting themselves into? Should they be more picky in the future about when they exert that type of physical effort?

Hardy I remember Samoa Joe being at the Ring of Horror show, I mean Ring of Honor show that I did and I didn't see him that much, and I didn't see him in a full match until the pay-per-view previous to this last one, but oh my God I was so impressed. I mean, I had no idea he moved like that. I was so impressed that I was in awe. It was just awesome, some of the things they did in the match. Somehow it seems the physical body wouldn't allow you to do that. They are really physical. Damn, I don't know. I don't know how long they can do that. It seems they have to get to a point, I don't know how old they are, but Daniels has been wrestling a long time. I met him a long time ago. He's so athletic and has, like, springs in his legs and can jump around. There has to be a point where they can't anymore.

Keller: Do you think it makes a big difference that the TNA wrestlers get to pick their schedule? A.J. Styles and Daniels work a ton of independent dates. They all have busy schedules, but it's different because they can pick weekends off and indy shows aren't always as physically enduring as the big pay-per-view matches are, so do you think they actually pace themselves better than you were able to in WWE where it was just the grind of the road every single weekend all the time?

Hardy Yeah, in a way they're their own bosses, I guess. Being able to make your own schedule and work however much you want to (helps). With my schedule, it's been the best. I've got it made as far as TNA. The more I think about that, it makes me feel horrible for the pay-per-view I did miss. It all depends on one's desire and how much they want to do whatever it is they're doing. I actually got to talk to Samoa Joe at this past pay-per-view and he knew some motorcross stuff. I guess he lives in California. He's super cool. I really think a lot of that guy. Depending on how many interests they have and how many things they enjoy other than wrestling; I know A.J.'s got a kid now and everything. That's got to be his first priority now regarding what happens at home. Laying out his schedule has to be a plus for that situation. I think as long as they enjoy doing what they're doing, then being your own boss is the best way to go.

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